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Slinks - Risers to Harness
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John_Scher

May 22, 2020, 1:42 PM
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If a harness/container is designed appropriately, is it mechanically viable to connect the risers to the harness using Slinks or perhaps Webbing type Slinks or other light weight connectors?

I want to travel with one lightweight harness/container and two lightweight canopy/riser/toggle systems: one system pre-configured slider off and the other pre-configured slider on and then swap them over as and when.

I would like the rig to be as near as possible to an integrated riser rig but still have the option of removing/replacing the risers.

I do not at all want to use three rings or other bulky hardware.

(This post was edited by John_Scher on May 22, 2020, 8:56 PM)

hjumper33
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May 22, 2020, 10:34 PM
Post #2 of 14 (738 views)
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I feel like there are multiple possible easier solutions to your problem, perhaps even having a single canopy you can jump slider up or down.

That being said, I know of a few rigs that have been custom built with essentially a large slink connecting a riser to the rest of the harness. Is there a reason you don’t want to just have a second container? The rig itself seems like minimal bulk if you’re already bringing a second loose canopy.


(This post was edited by hjumper33 on May 22, 2020, 10:50 PM)

John_Scher

May 23, 2020, 1:41 AM
Post #3 of 14 (727 views)
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Is there a reason you don’t want to just have a second container? The rig itself seems like minimal bulk if you’re already bringing a second loose canopy.


Thanks HJ, I will most likely end up doing just that but there is another angle which is that if I ever have to cut thru the risers (cold or fast flowing water) then of course they (risers) would be easy to replace if they were removable in the first place.

As Integrated risers become more popular which I'm told they are, then I hope such a removable, lightweight, riser attachment option becomes available especially for those that want integrated purely for the purpose of less bulk and weight.

(This post was edited by John_Scher on May 23, 2020, 1:51 AM)

AntoineLaporte

May 23, 2020, 2:23 AM
Post #4 of 14 (719 views)
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On my homemade harness I have homemade soft links to attach the risers to the harness.
For me there is no problem to do it IF the harness it made for that, for example I would not replace a 3 ring or a L-Bar by a soft link.
Soft links are in most case stronger than the harness webbing and can handle more than the 30 g-force I like to have as my calculated resistance.
I don't know the exact resistance of the PD SR1 soft links but my guess is that they are made with dyneema/spectra cord, 1500lb/700kg, the fact that it is fingertrapped add some resistance, it's a double loop when installed so it is around 4 time the resistance of the line that is used, around 6000lb/2800kg. 30g-force of my 70kgs is 2100kg force.

TomAiello

May 23, 2020, 12:17 PM
Post #5 of 14 (690 views)
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John_Scher wrote:
As Integrated risers become more popular which I'm told they are, then I hope such a removable, lightweight, riser attachment option becomes available especially for those that want integrated purely for the purpose of less bulk and weight.

I know two people who have built systems like what you are describing, for their own use. I am not aware of any manufacturers offering them for sale, though.

The Adrenalin "soft l-bar" system was basically the inspiration for these. You can see it on a lot of Adrenalin rigs. Unfortunately, it hasn't (yet) progressed to full removability. It's more of a reinforcement for unusual loading directions.

With that said, have you investigating the possibility of using old fashioned metal L-bars? They should do exactly what your'e talking about--they're just hard instead of soft.

John_Scher

May 23, 2020, 1:47 PM
Post #6 of 14 (681 views)
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Tom, thanks. The Adrenalin harness and soft bar looks perfect, alas as you mentioned, it’s a fixture, not releasable. …almost!

As much as I did jump Para Commanders, ropes & rings, five cell Strato-Stars, I did not really interact with Capewells that much or L-Bars at all.

I have reviewed L-Bars on the Para Gear Web site which calls them Separable Links and they seem to require some additional machine or tool to separate them. It also mentions they are for connecting lines to risers rather than risers to harness.

I can’t find any other pictures of them especially pics showing them connecting risers to harness. Has anyone got any?

John_Scher

May 23, 2020, 1:59 PM
Post #7 of 14 (680 views)
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Re: [AntoineLaporte] Slinks - Risers to Harness [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Antoine, amazing, excellent info, you seem to be ahead of the game once again.

Removable "almost-integrated" risers seem like a "no-brainer" especially for replacing "chopped" integrated risers. I wonder why manufacturers don't offer them?

Perhaps in reality integrated risers hardly ever do get chopped or perhaps they are just too risky or hard to build?

(This post was edited by John_Scher on May 23, 2020, 2:03 PM)

AntoineLaporte

May 23, 2020, 2:20 PM
Post #8 of 14 (674 views)
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You wonder why a manufacturer does not want to sell you something you could change on your own instead of buying a new gear ?

I'm not sure to be ahead of anybody on that, it was ust easier to make something strong with this systemafter seeing the problem with the old MW sewing breaking.
AB uses the SOFT BAR, SQ adds a piece of webbing, same problem, diferent solutions, not one better than the other IMO.

hjumper33
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May 23, 2020, 4:38 PM
Post #9 of 14 (664 views)
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FWIW, Squirrel has a policy that if you have to cut your risers in an emergency, they will replace your container free of charge. Kind of takes away some of that worry of messing up your gear when you should be focused on saving your own life. Im sure more than one person has drown because they didn’t want to lose or damage their gear. I’m not sure if other manufacturers do the same.

AntoineLaporte

May 29, 2020, 11:55 AM
Post #10 of 14 (458 views)
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hjumper33 wrote:
FWIW, Squirrel has a policy that if you have to cut your risers in an emergency, they will replace your container free of charge. Kind of takes away some of that worry of messing up your gear when you should be focused on saving your own life. Im sure more than one person has drown because they didn’t want to lose or damage their gear. I’m not sure if other manufacturers do the same.

I don't think anybody else is doing that, and it's very nice from them.
I will not agree that some people drown to save they gear, usually it is just because they were not able to do it, because of the suit/helmet, they were caught into the lines, or they had a shitty knife (only one blade and not stiff) that is only cutting one line and is dead after.
SQ is actually giving a good knife with the wingsuits, not sure with the containers, i did not saw it on the containers pages.

To link that to the main subject which one is easier to cut: soft link or riser...

TomAiello

Jun 7, 2020, 8:25 PM
Post #11 of 14 (414 views)
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John_Scher wrote:
I have reviewed L-Bars on the Para Gear Web site which calls them Separable Links and they seem to require some additional machine or tool to separate them. It also mentions they are for connecting lines to risers rather than risers to harness.

The only tool you need is a screwdriver.

I have some, and I can try to take a photo for you if you want. I'm traveling until next weekend, though.

John_Scher

Jun 8, 2020, 3:49 AM
Post #12 of 14 (388 views)
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Thanks Tom but I'll run with Soft Links. I really want to get away from chunky pieces of metal.

A friend sent me a pic (see attached) using exactly what I'm looking for (Slinks) on a recently made Bad Seed rig.
Attachments: Slinks - Riser to Harness.jpg (242 KB)

Fledgling

Jun 13, 2020, 6:15 AM
Post #13 of 14 (306 views)
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hjumper33 wrote:
Kind of takes away some of that worry of messing up your gear when you should be focused on saving your own life. Im sure more than one person has drown because they didn’t want to lose or damage their gear.

As someone that has almost drowned I can attest that I would be dead if I didn't have a 3 ring system. While it is admirable for SQ to promote their replacement policy I think it also needs to be re-iterated that it is still not a safe viable alternative if drowning is truly a risk.
Another thought that I just had as I was typing is that when I landed in the river I immediately/instinctively cut away (because that's what you train for) and it wasn't until after the cut away that shit got really bad. So if I was using a continuous harness that initial action that saved my life simply wouldn't have taken place and by the time I was in true danger it would have been too late to cut anything.
This is not an attack on Squirrel and I still do the vast majority of my jumps on a continuous harness. But the idea that you can simply cut your risers off to avoid drowning is a flawed concept. And while SQ does promote their replacement program I think jumpers need to truly evaluate the benefits of a 3Ring harness for certain jumps and not some sales pitch.
P.S. In my case I lost everything from the harness up and never gave it a second thought. Not before, during, or after.

John_Scher

Jun 13, 2020, 9:00 AM
Post #14 of 14 (299 views)
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"...when I landed in the river I immediately/instinctively cut away (because that's what you train for) and it wasn't until after the cut away that shit got really bad."


Glad you didn't die.

Any chance of getting the full story?


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