Forums: BASE Jumping: BASE Technical:
TOXIC
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jjmacc

Oct 29, 2019, 4:47 PM
Post #1 of 18 (941 views)
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TOXIC Can't Post

Hey guys, I've done a search and there's nothing that recent about toxics. just wondering what peoples opinions are now they've become really popular?

Ive got a 46 standard asylum PC that i've used HH down to 240' and never had an issue. looking to keep that one for SL/PCA jumps and get myself a new 48 for low freefall.

Options are just a normal PC, or treat myself to a toxic.
Just wanted to know peoples real world views on whether they were worth the extra money, and if they do have the extra snatch force, pull, and stability people say they have?

My canopy is a flik2 290, normal material.

Thanks, Jase.

DFR

Oct 29, 2019, 6:00 PM
Post #2 of 18 (931 views)
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Re: [jjmacc] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Toxics are my go-to PC for sub-terminal and Snatches for terminal. More stable than other brands ring-vents or apex-vents in my experience and I have yet to have any hesitations.

I'd say they're worth the cash.

Dadsy

Oct 29, 2019, 6:01 PM
Post #3 of 18 (931 views)
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Re: [jjmacc] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Treat yourself, it is the most important part of the process

jools

Oct 30, 2019, 2:51 AM
Post #4 of 18 (887 views)
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Re: [jjmacc] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Like all things in BASE I guess it depends on your style of jumping. If you run around the city doing low FF where heading is critical then yes I’d say get Toxics above anything else. If you are only ever going to pull high at the Perrine/Millau etc then maybe not.

For what it’s worth, they are the only PCs I own now.
I was dropped from 138ft PCA without the pins even been popped. I had. 48” Toxic and limped away with a cracked heel and a broken toe. I actually had enough time to get the toggles off and somewhat flare. I am 100% convinced if I had a lesser PC I wouldn’t have faired so well.


Laters,


(This post was edited by jools on Oct 30, 2019, 1:27 PM)

jjmacc

Oct 30, 2019, 8:44 AM
Post #5 of 18 (841 views)
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Re: [jools] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Cheers guys, toxic it is.

Jools I heard about that, lucky mate!

I guess the way im going to look at it is, if i've got a toxic on, there's no better PC I could have.
If I haven't got a toxic on, there's potentially something better I could have....

flite

Oct 30, 2019, 1:52 PM
Post #6 of 18 (799 views)
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Re: [jjmacc] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump Toxics and Snatches and feel they are worth the extra money. Regardless of what you jump, occasionally check the trim of the support tapes. I’ve had a few pc’s go out of trim
( all 42”s ) and they will cause an off heading.

bluhdow

Oct 30, 2019, 1:52 PM
Post #7 of 18 (798 views)
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Re: [jjmacc] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Apex BASE likes the ring vent design enough to (very recently) release our own version:

https://apexbase.com/...g-vent-pilot-chutes/

At this point, we only have them in a 42" so for a 48" you'll need a Toxic (I don't think Black Sheep offers them in 48" either). We're working on other sizes at the moment, but we take our time with every iteration of every product before public release.

In our view, the ring vent design is the best option for sub-terminal jumping (at least as far as oscillation and stability is concerned). Credit where credit is due to Marty for the Toxic.

As mentioned above, it's not really worth it for bridges and the like. But if you're worried about heading, then it's a great option.

I would be very surprised if anyone on the planet has enough data on the various ring vent designs (Apex, Asylum, Blacksheep, etc.) to compare them objectively. Most of the feedback we've gotten on our design (as it compares to the others) has been related to personal preferences (e.g. I prefer no patch instead of a patch handle, I prefer black mesh vs. white mesh, etc.). As long as the PC is well built, stability between the various brands should be identical.

skow

Oct 31, 2019, 6:21 AM
Post #8 of 18 (715 views)
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Re: [jools] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

jools wrote:
Like all things in BASE I guess it depends on your style of jumping. If you run around the city doing low FF where heading is critical then yes I’d say get Toxics above anything else. If you are only ever going to pull high at the Perrine/Millau etc then maybe not.

For what it’s worth, they are the only PCs I own now.
I was dropped from 138ft PCA without the pins even been popped. I had. 48” Toxic and limped away with a cracked heel and a broken toe. I actually had enough time to get the toggles off and somewhat flare. I am 100% convinced if I had a lesser PC I wouldn’t have faired so well.


Laters,

Do you mean that in addition to better stability, it has more pull force as well?

Also is the secret mainly in the ring vent or do different materials also matter (is it mixture of F111 and ZP??)


(This post was edited by skow on Oct 31, 2019, 6:23 AM)

bluhdow

Oct 31, 2019, 7:15 AM
Post #9 of 18 (704 views)
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Re: [skow] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

All of the ring vents I've seen are entirely ZP and mesh, so it's not a mixture of fabric.

The other ingredient in the "secret sauce" that makes up the ring vent design isn't fabric type, it's fabric placement. The panels on those PCs are all set being mindful of the block/bias of the ZP so when the fabric is exposed to fast moving air it stretches (or doesn't stretch) more symmetrically.

skow

Oct 31, 2019, 7:37 AM
Post #10 of 18 (701 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for the info.

I was just wondering what does "an advanced combination of materials" mean on the Toxic PC site.

Also, what is the difference between series 6 and 7? Series 6 seems to have bigger vents closer to the apex (or is the area of the vents actually the same?) - How does this influence the performance?

jools

Oct 31, 2019, 8:20 AM
Post #11 of 18 (694 views)
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Re: [skow] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

skow wrote:

Do you mean that in addition to better stability, it has more pull force as well?

Also is the secret mainly in the ring vent or do different materials also matter (is it mixture of F111 and ZP??)

From what I understand each segment is aligned to prevent distortion/stretch. They are hand made in the US by Marty to the highest quality.

I would much prefer a 42” Toxic than a random 48” made by whoever, on a low end FF. While I believe both will do the job, I think the Toxic simply does it better, faster and with a greater pull force.

flite

Oct 31, 2019, 11:16 AM
Post #12 of 18 (667 views)
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Re: [skow] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

 On my Toxics the inner panels are F111 and the outers are ZP. I wouldn’t say the Toxics provide any more pull force. It’s just they’re very stable.
I do have a Snatch 42” NR that I had to remove the cap handle on to soften it up a bit, because I felt it was pulling too hard.

bluhdow

Oct 31, 2019, 11:34 AM
Post #13 of 18 (662 views)
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Re: [flite] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting. This thread actually led to me wonder if any had been built that way. It makes sense, though you will give up a little pull force in exchange for a little more stability.

My 46" Toxic is all ZP. Not sure I've ever seen one (at least in person) made with mixed fabric.

Fledgling

Oct 31, 2019, 5:49 PM
Post #14 of 18 (603 views)
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Re: [skow] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

skow wrote:
Do you mean that in addition to better stability, it has more pull force as well?
The ring vent has been moved to a more optimal position for better stability than older center vented designs (even the Series 6 and Series 7 Toxics have a slight difference here).
The "Block" construction will result in less/no distortion of the panels (when compared to the simple 2 disc design) that will absolutely make it pull harder than an older design of the same size.
Pretty sure you can get composite fabric Toxics as I had a pretty lengthy conversation with Marty one time about getting one with an F1-11 center for terminal jumps.

Fledgling

Oct 31, 2019, 5:50 PM
Post #15 of 18 (602 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

bluhdow wrote:
Apex BASE likes the ring vent design enough to (very recently) release our own version:

Great to see Todd finally got that thing into production.

bas3

Nov 1, 2019, 7:11 PM
Post #16 of 18 (479 views)
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Re: [flite] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

Always wondered why Squirrel eliminated the ring vent instead of the apex vent from the first version of the 42” Snatch -

jools

Nov 2, 2019, 4:30 PM
Post #17 of 18 (431 views)
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Re: [bas3] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

bas3 wrote:
Always wondered why Squirrel eliminated the ring vent instead of the apex vent from the first version of the 42” Snatch -
Not 100% sure if this was the main reason but I know of a couple of pretty serious hesitations on them. 1 was a particularly long hesitation. Luckily it was during a comp and the jumpers had a set delay, the jumper pitched and had a solid 2 seconds before anything started to happen. Luckily he had plenty of altitude and landed safely.

bas3

Nov 2, 2019, 9:26 PM
Post #18 of 18 (408 views)
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Re: [jools] TOXIC [In reply to] Can't Post

That’s right , because the first version had both vents and was hesitating. But couldn’t they have built the new ones with just the ring vent ?


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