Forums: BASE Jumping: BASE Technical:
Slider Sizes
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base388

Aug 2, 2019, 11:58 AM
Post #1 of 16 (6161 views)
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Slider Sizes Can't Post

I have a mesh 20x28 and want to go to a sail slider. Is it a big deal to go to a 23x28?? Would this allow more cord versus span stretch as the slider comes down??

or does a Smaller Slider make it open Slower?

Thanks for Responses.


(This post was edited by base388 on Aug 2, 2019, 2:28 PM)

bluhdow

Aug 2, 2019, 5:42 PM
Post #2 of 16 (6135 views)
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Re: [base388] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a lot of flexibility with slider sizes. Apex BASE uses the same slider size for:

200 and below (17 x 24)
210 - 250 (20 x 24)
260+ (23 x 28)

So in the middle case you've got two canopies with a 40 sq. ft. difference using the same slider. I've also personally used a 20 x 24 on a 260 with no noticeable difference.

In an even more extreme example, we recently built a 360 sq. ft. canopy that is using a 23 x 28...so that's a 100 sq. ft. difference on the same slider.

In your case, the size difference is very minor. I would expect that there would be no meaningful performance differences. And even if there was a meaningful difference on opening...doesn't the fact that you're after a sail slider indicate that this is for a skydive? Sail sliders are not intended to be BASE jumped. At least not the ones we build.

I know we chatted about this in e-mail as well, but wanted to share this for anyone else in the forum. =)

skow

Aug 4, 2019, 10:55 PM
Post #3 of 16 (6040 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic (if it's too much ,I'll do a separate post).

I've been testing some sliders recently and came up with a conclusion, which would be nice if somebody could check.

I found out that the size size of the slider (the span wise, i.e. how wide it is ) affects the speed how the canopy opens at the very beginning (e.g. if it slams or starts opening very slowly).

The second thing I found out is that the material doesn't affect the first phase at all but only the second phase i.e. the sniveling when the slider comes down.
As an example I used an Atair slow slider, small mesh and big mesh and they all had the same "pull" at the beginning and the only difference was the time of the snivel.

I haven't tested how the chord wise size affects the opening - would be nice to hear something about this.

base388

Aug 13, 2019, 10:01 AM
Post #4 of 16 (5911 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Found a 26''x28'' and played with in on several skydives. Spanked half way down and then pumped to get slider to come down (nose rolled tight). third skydive left nose open and the slider had a nice consistent speed coming down. Going to Switch to the 23x28 sail from Apex and give it a go nose open and nose rolled. The Fine Mesh 20x28 was knocking me silly, hurting my back and neck. Thanks for the Input and Insight.

base388

Aug 13, 2019, 10:08 AM
Post #5 of 16 (5906 views)
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Re: [skow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting.... Not off topic at all. I will let you know how my next openings go on the slightly smaller depth of slider.
Attachments: IMG_6725.jpg (2.60 MB)

skow

Aug 13, 2019, 9:32 PM
Post #6 of 16 (5859 views)
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Re: [base388] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice, thanks!

For testing, you may want to do several jumps on the same configuration as on only one jump it may still be kind of random. E.g. on all kind of sliders I've had opening from slamming hard to scary slow and snively.

base388

Aug 14, 2019, 12:10 PM
Post #7 of 16 (5819 views)
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Re: [skow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Truth, will do! Small Mesh about knocked my lights out 3 times in a row.....Fahq! LOL

base388

Aug 19, 2019, 9:21 AM
Post #8 of 16 (5677 views)
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Re: [skow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

23x28 sail slider from Apex opening just right for me (2 jumps). Not too hard, not to soft. It's a smidge larger than stock, but not as big as the red sail slider I tried on many jumps that sniveled 26x28. Stock Mesh was 20x28.

Will do a few more jumps to make sure it's consistent.

skow

Aug 19, 2019, 9:24 AM
Post #9 of 16 (5675 views)
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Re: [base388] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

What canopy do you jump?

Fledgling

Aug 20, 2019, 5:14 AM
Post #10 of 16 (5620 views)
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Re: [base388] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

base388 wrote:
or does a Smaller Slider make it open Slower?

My understanding of the situation is that a smaller "mesh" slider (large or small mesh) should slow the openings due to it restricting the initial canopy expansion that drives the slider down. While the opposite is true for sail sliders as the larger the slider is the more "sail" is available to slow the sliders rate of descent.
(Obviously there would be preferred ranges for optimal openings).

skow

Aug 23, 2019, 3:36 AM
Post #11 of 16 (5517 views)
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Re: [Fledgling] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Fledgling wrote:
While the opposite is true for sail sliders as the larger the slider is the more "sail" is available to slow the sliders rate of descent.

However wouldn't the same size mesh and sail slider restrict the initial canopy expansion equally?

base388

Aug 29, 2019, 12:07 PM
Post #12 of 16 (5384 views)
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Re: [skow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

This is for a Proxy Unvented 260 with MicroLines

Fledgling

Aug 29, 2019, 4:43 PM
Post #13 of 16 (5338 views)
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Re: [skow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

skow wrote:
Fledgling wrote:
While the opposite is true for sail sliders as the larger the slider is the more "sail" is available to slow the sliders rate of descent.

However wouldn't the same size mesh and sail slider restrict the initial canopy expansion equally?

Yes. But then the benefits of the larger sail slow it down more the rest of the way. Whereas the mesh provides very little resistance once the slider starts moving.

skow

Aug 29, 2019, 9:11 PM
Post #14 of 16 (5322 views)
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Re: [Fledgling] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, that's what I meant that in the first phase only the size of the slider matters, not the material.

Material only affects the second part - slows it down more or less.

Do we have the same understanding?


(This post was edited by skow on Aug 29, 2019, 9:15 PM)

Fledgling

Aug 30, 2019, 4:59 AM
Post #15 of 16 (5299 views)
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Re: [skow] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

skow wrote:
Yes, that's what I meant that in the first phase only the size of the slider matters, not the material.

Material only affects the second part - slows it down more or less.

Do we have the same understanding?

Yes I understand your point. But I would also clarify that when you say it only slows down the "2nd part" you are actually saying that it will slow down the opening from linestretch onwards.
Your "initial canopy expansion" is literally the span that the canopy can achieve with the slider still in place at the top of the lines.

skow

Aug 30, 2019, 5:18 AM
Post #16 of 16 (5296 views)
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Re: [Fledgling] Slider Sizes [In reply to] Can't Post

Fledgling wrote:
it only slows down the "2nd part" you are actually saying that it will slow down the opening from linestretch onwards.
Your "initial canopy expansion" is literally the span that the canopy can achieve with the slider still in place at the top of the lines.

Well technically not exactly at the linestrech - but very soon after that i.e. the moment slider starts to descend.


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