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Hayduke canopy from Squirrel
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DFR

May 24, 2018, 10:54 PM
Post #1 of 30 (3447 views)
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Hayduke canopy from Squirrel Can't Post

So a few people on here have been asking for opinions on the Hayduke and I said once I got a few jumps on mine I'd post something so here it is.

To start, I have over 300 jumps on a 225 OSP, about 150 jumps between a 226 and 248 OutlawLite, 5 jumps on my 250 Hayduke, and then a handful of random jumps on Foxs, Aces, Trolls, FLiks and a Se7en.

Opening:
Since my 250 Hayduke has spectra lines, all my jumps have been slider up with low airspeed (wingsuit or subterminal slider up). Every one was on-headng or close with smooth pressurization. They felt slightly faster than my OutlawLite openings though that's likely due to the line set. From what I've seen they're pressurizing as quickly as anything else on the market slider down as well. Once my 240 with Dacron comes in I can give personal feedback on that too.

Glide:
Better than the OSP and OutlawLite.

Speed:
Faster than the OSP and (248) OutlawLite. Once I put it in 1/4 brakes, the speed felt the same as both those canopies in full flight.

Deep Brakes:
Same as OSP, almost as good as the OutlawLite. The OSP is amazing in deep brakes, but still seems to wobble or search for a heading (like any canopy will) when flying nearly straight down or stalling (any other canopy gets those wobbles sooner than the OSP though). I found the OutlawLite (likely due to the float flaps) was dead stable even when stalling it straight down or backwards. I would say the Hayduke feels nearly identical to the OSP when flying in super deep brakes or a stall.

Flare:
Holy shit! this thing feels like a skydive canopy! No, but seriously, the flare is better than anything I've jumped. Maybe the Se7en comes close? Coming in from full flight or using front risers this thing can swoop. When it feels like I should be landing on an OSP or OutlawLite, I fly another 10'. The funny thing is unlike other higher performance canopies like the Ibex, Feather, Peak; the Hayduke still lands just as good or better than my OSP when coming in in brakes. The other day I was sinking it in with just under half brakes with no wind, didn't let it surge and still had a tip toe landing.

Pack Volume:
No exact numbers but the 250 Hayduke (granted it has Spectra lines instead of Dacron) packs significantly smaller than the 248 OutlawLite. If you account for the difference in lines, it still packs smaller.

Features
-5 vents
-Center 3 cells have slats
-Float Flaps on cells 2,3,5,6
-5 lines of attachment with a staggered cascade on the brake to increase control and reduce tension knots

Summery
The Hayduke is the shit! Your life will improve if you get one. No, but seriously, I love this canopy. It gives me the same security I was used to in tight landing areas and my OSP yet WAY more flare. It gives me more glide than the OSP or OutlawLite which is nice in the mountains if you need to make a far LZ (Although with the A3 I'm always opening right over the LZ...Wink). I personally think it's the best all around canopy out there. You get the glide of the higher performance canopies like the Peak or the Feather, but still the deep brakes stability of the OSP or OutlawLite. Great wingsuit and subterminal slider up openings, great slider down openings too from what I've seen and heard.

If anyone has any questions let me know or PM me. If you wanna see for yourself and live near by, I'd be glad to let you try my 240 or 250.

Brutus

May 25, 2018, 2:02 AM
Post #2 of 30 (3401 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

That was really helpful.

After reading your review I think I made the right decision.
I have only jumped a 265 Troll MDW, a 260 Ace and a 260 Outlaw (all terminal) and was looking for an all aroud canopy but mostly centered on terminal tracking jumps or forgiving bridges or antennas.

TomAiello

May 25, 2018, 9:06 AM
Post #3 of 30 (3320 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

The only real competitor to the Hayduke is Atair's Vision, which is the other high-glide, strong flare airfoil with a slat system for sinkabiity.

I'm hoping to put more jumps on the Hayduke this summer (so far I have about as many as you do, which isn't enough for me to give much feedback), but my initial impression is that the Vision has better glide and stronger, sharper flare, but the Hayduke is more docile and forgiving of canopy mistakes.

I don't actually feel like there is a clear winner between them, and it may come down to jumping environment, or (more likely) jumper experience and preference. People with a lot of high performance skydiving experience are probably going to like the Vision more (and better be able to handle it's higher performance features without getting themselves into trouble), but beginners are going to find the Hayduke more forgiving, and thus safer for them. At present, we have Haydukes in our student rotation, but not Visions.

DFR

May 25, 2018, 11:43 AM
Post #4 of 30 (3282 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

TomAiello wrote:
my initial impression is that the Vision has better glide and stronger, sharper flare, but the Hayduke is more docile and forgiving of canopy mistakes.

Iíve heard the same thing. I guess if my landings were all big and open I might see the advantage for the vision. But to me it seems the Hayduke would be better for most. You get the same deep brakes everyone raves about with the OSP yet way better flare. Considering how surprised I was with the power of the flare of the Hayduke, I canít imagine needing any more, especially if it sacrifices deep brake performance.

TomAiello

May 25, 2018, 1:40 PM
Post #5 of 30 (3236 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

DFR wrote:
TomAiello wrote:
my initial impression is that the Vision has better glide and stronger, sharper flare, but the Hayduke is more docile and forgiving of canopy mistakes.

Iíve heard the same thing. I guess if my landings were all big and open I might see the advantage for the vision. But to me it seems the Hayduke would be better for most. You get the same deep brakes everyone raves about with the OSP yet way better flare. Considering how surprised I was with the power of the flare of the Hayduke, I canít imagine needing any more, especially if it sacrifices deep brake performance.

The Vision has the same kind of deep brake performance. The trade off is in toggle response. The Vision has much sharper/stronger toggle response, so it feels "sportier" or "less boaty". Basically, it felt more like a skydiving canopy, in terms of the responses. I feel like an inexperienced canopy pilot (or just one prone to panic responses) might get themselves into trouble with it. But assuming that you do your part, it is certainly very capable of steep approaches.


You were getting weak flare out of your OSP? I haven't really seen that being a problem, especially from part brakes. Hopefully I'll get some more time on the Hayduke to compare, but my initial impression wasn't that the flare was much different from the OSP flare. Both OSP and Hayduke felt like they had much more flare authority than the Outlaw, and both felt like they had less full flight flare than the Vision (and the difference was a lot less flaring from part brakes).


(This post was edited by TomAiello on May 26, 2018, 5:07 PM)

DFR

May 25, 2018, 1:50 PM
Post #6 of 30 (3226 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

I never had any flare issues with my OSP, I just feel like the Hayduke has more flare. Which is likely due to the higher speed and more performance feel of the wing. The OSP is great for low stuff and sinking in and I had soft landings with it, just not excessive flare like the Hayduke.

A few people Iíve talked to who own/have flown the OSP and Vision told me the Vision isnít quite as good as the OSP in brakes but still better than all the non slatted canopies. Since I found the slow speed handling and deep brakes of the Hayduke to be newrly identical in feel to the OSP (so not quite as good as OulawLite), I assume that means itís slightly better than the Vision. Either way, all those canopies handle better than most in super deep brakes. Just personally Iíd go with the Hayduke on 99% of my jumps unless I really wanted the slowe speed of the OutlawLite.

TomAiello

May 25, 2018, 2:28 PM
Post #7 of 30 (3207 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

I think when you go from non-slatted to slatted canopies you are really going from apples to oranges in terms of steep approach characteristics.

Given that you're already in the "oranges" (meaning you are head and shoulders above the non-slatted canopies), I'd probably rate the steep approach capabilities of the canopies in order from the best as Outlaw-OSP-HayDuke-Vision, but the differences between those four are much, much less significant than the difference between any of the four and any non-slatted canopy.

DFR

May 25, 2018, 3:14 PM
Post #8 of 30 (3196 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

I pretty much completely agree. In your ranking I think the Hayduke feels closer to the OSP than the OSP feels to the OutlawLite, almost the same as it which is why I think itís the perfect canopy in that class, no disadvantage over the OSP and improved glide and flare. But as you said, all 4 of the canopies are levels above anything non-slatted on the market.

BigfcknG

May 27, 2018, 1:56 PM
Post #9 of 30 (3019 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

Quite an in depth unsolicited review. Especially with the comparisons to the market leaders from other manufacturers. Are you sponsored by Squirrel?

hjumper33
Moderator
May 28, 2018, 2:17 AM
Post #10 of 30 (2901 views)
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Re: [BigfcknG] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty easy to see who has ties to squirrel. They have peoples pictures on the website saying who is part of the team.

setarkos

May 28, 2018, 2:40 AM
Post #11 of 30 (2896 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

That doesn't include everybody who gets free gear.

AntoineLaporte

May 28, 2018, 4:56 AM
Post #12 of 30 (2863 views)
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Re: [BigfcknG] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

BigfcknG wrote:
Quite an in depth unsolicited review. Especially with the comparisons to the market leaders from other manufacturers. Are you sponsored by Squirrel?

I was asking myself the same question: sponsored by Squirrel or not ?
If so it could (should ?) be written in the first post.

hjumper33
Moderator
May 28, 2018, 7:08 AM
Post #13 of 30 (2843 views)
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Re: [setarkos] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

I think thereís a bit of a misconception that a lot of manufacturers are just giving away all this free gear. I think each has a few people, but hell, Iím on squirrels website, and I still pay for my stuff. Apex, start sending me free shit and Iíll write nice reviews of it ;). And remember, most of the cool guys that do get free gear are super fancy sponsored jumpers, and probably donít waste their time on this forum. Not that Daniel isnít cool..

setarkos

May 28, 2018, 7:19 AM
Post #14 of 30 (2839 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally know people who get free gear and are not on squirrel's website. (Also for other manufacturers)

I'm not saying there is something wrong with it but I do think it's fair to ask for such info in the context of a review, especially a comparison with other manufacturers.


(This post was edited by setarkos on May 28, 2018, 8:30 AM)

TomAiello

May 28, 2018, 9:15 AM
Post #15 of 30 (2814 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

hjumper33 wrote:
I think thereís a bit of a misconception that a lot of manufacturers are just giving away all this free gear.

I'm not sure this is really an appropriate discussion here, so maybe we ought to have it in another thread, if people want to continue it.

But...I know quite a few people who get free gear from manufacturers, and I do think there is a substantial difference in the amount of free gear given away by different manufacturers. Some manufacturers market much harder, and give away a lot more free gear (the number of jumpers I know getting free gear from one manufacturer is a full order of magnitude greater than the number I know from any other manufacturer, for example).

There's also a substantial "hopeful fanboy" effect created by that. If it's well known that a manufacturer is giving out free gear, then people who aren't sponsored will tend to become advocates for that manufacturer in hopes of making the "cool sponsored kid" team and getting some free stuff for themselves.

I even know a few people who have contacted manufacturers asking for sponsorship--in some cases even before they'd made a single BASE jump. Some of those people are also given to loudly praising (in various forms) the gear of the manufacturer they've "targeted" to ask for sponsorship, probably in hopes that it will help their "application."

In my experience, the "fanboys" are generally a lot louder, more aggressive and more biased than the actual sponsored jumpers (the majority of whom are just out there jumping away and not really caring about the marketing and PR of the manufacturers--not even the ones who are sponsoring them).

Please note that I'm trying really hard not to name names here. I am "in" with several manufacturers (as a dealer, not a sponsored jumper) and they pretty much all have internal memos they send out to dealers and sponsored athletes, which give an inside view of some of the marketing efforts. Please don't assume that I'm talking about any specific manufacturer.


(This post was edited by TomAiello on May 28, 2018, 11:36 AM)

bluhdow

May 28, 2018, 1:00 PM
Post #16 of 30 (2757 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

Weíd much rather have you on board as an aggressive fanboy. If youíre game I can ghostwrite all of your product reviews for you! Tongue

BigfcknG

May 29, 2018, 1:20 PM
Post #17 of 30 (2536 views)
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Re: [BigfcknG] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

The interesting points in the OP were the numerous references to it being slightly better than the OSP, the glowing review after only 5 jumps and an offer to have a loan of one. Given the very aggressive style of marketing from Squirrel, I was wondering where this post fit with that because ads on this site are usually paid for, aren't they?

Haven't heard back from DFR yet either. I'm curious.

DFR

May 29, 2018, 2:15 PM
Post #18 of 30 (2506 views)
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Re: [BigfcknG] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

The only thing free Iíve gotten from Squirrel was a hat and T-shirt when I paid full price for an Aura3 and Stream/OutlawLite combo A little over a year ago.

I compare it mainly to the OSP because (a) I have the most jumps on the OSP and (b) a lot of people are familiar with the OSP so itís easy to picture the Hayduke feeling like that with a few small differences.

I only have 5 jumps on it so far but the first 2 jumps landing downwind and with a slight downdraft thatís usually present on a local jump, I had softer landings than any jumps with the OSP in those conditions. The next three were wingsuit jumps and I was sinking it completely vertical between 150í trees into a narrow and fairly short meadow that Iíve sunk my OSP into many times. It felt the same stability when sinking it but a mug more powerful flare.

I think the OSP has a stronger flare the Outlaw, but the Outlaw has better deep brake characteristics which is why I kept the OSP for a while. After seeing the performance of the Hayduke I sold my OSP as Iím getting all the benifits of it but a stronger flare with the Hayduke.

Squirrel didnít ask or pay me to post a review. I had had a few people ask me how I liked it and there were a few previous posts in other threads asking about it. Since there isnít much feedback on the Hayduke yet, I figured Iíd throw in my 2 cents to help anyone deciding on their new canopy.

The loan offer is more swap rigs for a jump if youíre a friend or passing through where I live since I figured people would call BS on it being that much better than the OSP. After a jump or two on it youíll see what I mean.

BigfcknG

May 29, 2018, 2:23 PM
Post #19 of 30 (2499 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

Cheers for clearing that up. It's good to know how organic these reviews are.

hjumper33
Moderator
May 29, 2018, 2:43 PM
Post #20 of 30 (2486 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

bluhdow wrote:
Weíd much rather have you on board as an aggressive fanboy. If youíre game I can ghostwrite all of your product reviews for you! Tongue

Except the multi, I get to write that one. Sly

TomAiello

May 29, 2018, 3:08 PM
Post #21 of 30 (2476 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

hjumper33 wrote:
bluhdow wrote:
Weíd much rather have you on board as an aggressive fanboy. If youíre game I can ghostwrite all of your product reviews for you! Tongue

Except the multi, I get to write that one. Sly

Can I do the upside down tail pocket?

bluhdow

May 29, 2018, 3:34 PM
Post #22 of 30 (2466 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course! As long as you both also review the tailgate. Tongue

It is what it is, I may be an Apex fanboy, but at least Iím honest about it. Cool

hookitt

Jun 10, 2018, 9:09 AM
Post #23 of 30 (1958 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

How speedy, or sporty feeling, is the Hayduke in comparison to say a (vented) Feather?

What about a BLackJack too since that's my back up canopy?

DFR

Jun 10, 2018, 10:11 AM
Post #24 of 30 (1941 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

You got a container that will fit s lightweight 240? I have a band new Hayduke sitting in my room thatís waiting for its container to come in... if you have a container I can borrow youíre more than welcome to put a few jumps on the canopy. Iíve never jumped a Blackjack (just Ace and it was underloaded) or a feather so I canít compare them.

hookitt

Jun 10, 2018, 12:28 PM
Post #25 of 30 (1904 views)
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Re: [DFR] Hayduke canopy from Squirrel [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a container, but unless I'm taking it with me to Norway, I'll have to wait.


(This post was edited by hookitt on Jun 10, 2018, 3:38 PM)

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