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Base Rig Attachment point for climb down
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Catch22.FMX

Sep 26, 2017, 2:51 PM
Post #1 of 26 (2333 views)
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Base Rig Attachment point for climb down Can't Post

Hi all! Im wondering if it would be acceptable to use a sling from each of the hip rings on the side, meeting in the middle to attach a carabiner?
This would be only for a climb down or at worse suspended load...No whippers/lead climbing or Factor 2 falls Laugh

Similar to the LD2 and Hybrid3 ABX (IIRC) sewn loops with the Dyneema loops to thread through.

Otherwise a proper minimalistic harness would be ideal, but jumping it down with a two piece might be a bit awkward and subtracts from the experience! Any ideas?

Anyone tried in a real life situation making a harness from a sewn sling/extender and using it?

TomAiello

Sep 26, 2017, 3:11 PM
Post #2 of 26 (2317 views)
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Re: [Catch22.FMX] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

You're better off to clip one of the hip rings with a 'biner, girth hitch the other one, and then make a sliding X in the middle to attach your rappel device to. That way the two points equalize and share the load. Be sure you tuck the whole system away before jumping, or use locking carabiners and lock them closed--a bridle through the gate of the carabiner would definitely get you a place on the list.

I have jumped a Camp Race Harness (https://www.backcountry.com/...a-alp-racing-harness) under a Phoenix Fly Power Track Suit multiple times in a day with no issues. I just kept the harness on while packing, rappelled by opening the fly on the PTS, and then tucked the rappel device back into the fly and zipped up before exit. It's not at all awkward and I didn't feel like it detracted from the jumps at all.


(This post was edited by TomAiello on Sep 26, 2017, 3:13 PM)

epibase

Sep 26, 2017, 4:40 PM
Post #3 of 26 (2276 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

this camp harness is great. I have used this one for years. It packs up super small too

http://www.camp-usa.com/...by-the-gear-flogger/

i think it may be discontinued now though..

hjumper33
Moderator
Sep 26, 2017, 5:10 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2260 views)
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Re: [epibase] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup I'll 3rd the camp 95 harness. I've been using one for the last 7-8 years and it's held up really well.

wasatchrider

Sep 26, 2017, 8:44 PM
Post #5 of 26 (2213 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

Or just a long sling around the front of your waist through the legs and three point with a biner

setarkos

Sep 27, 2017, 1:34 AM
Post #6 of 26 (2138 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

TomAiello wrote:
You're better off to clip one of the hip rings with a 'biner, girth hitch the other one, and then make a sliding X in the middle to attach your rappel device to. That way the two points equalize and share the load.

In climbing we try to avoid metal-on-metal because it causes wear.
I don't see why you would have to equalize for the low loads of rappelling?
I would girth hitch two equal length slings to the hip rings and connect them with a locking carabiner holding the rappel device.

Nothing wrong with using a climbing harness. Just wear it over your leg straps.


(This post was edited by setarkos on Sep 27, 2017, 1:36 AM)

gharrop

Sep 27, 2017, 2:28 AM
Post #7 of 26 (2116 views)
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Re: [setarkos] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

That's what I do, two 30cm slings work perfectly.
Attachments: vlcsnap-2017-06-02-17h26m37s480.jpg (539 KB)

setarkos

Sep 27, 2017, 6:38 AM
Post #8 of 26 (2047 views)
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Re: [setarkos] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

A friend corrected me, he prefers to wear his harness underneath the leg straps.

Adding to what I said above, not only metal-metal connections but also fabric-fabric should be avoided for regular use because of wear due to friction. For those who don't have hip rings.

TomAiello

Sep 27, 2017, 9:06 AM
Post #9 of 26 (1997 views)
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Re: [setarkos] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

setarkos wrote:
Nothing wrong with using a climbing harness. Just wear it over your leg straps.

Can you explain why you said this originally? Or was it just a typo?

kenny123

Sep 27, 2017, 11:04 AM
Post #10 of 26 (1957 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish Squirrel harness/container systems didn't conceal the hip articulation behind foam and fabric for this very reason :(

platypii

Sep 27, 2017, 11:38 AM
Post #11 of 26 (1932 views)
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Re: [kenny123] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty sure squirrel has full strength chest strap to rappel on

maretus

Sep 27, 2017, 1:05 PM
Post #12 of 26 (1905 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

hjumper33 wrote:
Yup I'll 3rd the camp 95 harness. I've been using one for the last 7-8 years and it's held up really well.

Me as well. I think the Alp 95 has been discontinued but there are multiple other manufacturers making similar UL harnesses. Also one pro on having UL harness with you is that if you need to rappel (or just secure yourself somewhere) during the hike or while searching for the exit you donīt always need to wear your rig.

setarkos

Sep 27, 2017, 2:42 PM
Post #13 of 26 (1871 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

TomAiello wrote:
setarkos wrote:
Nothing wrong with using a climbing harness. Just wear it over your leg straps.

Can you explain why you said this originally? Or was it just a typo?

That was overemphasized. I thought it would probably be uncomfortable having something underneath the leg straps during opening. No safety concerns.
I guess in order to tighten the climbing harness properly it is even better to wear it underneath.


(This post was edited by setarkos on Sep 27, 2017, 2:48 PM)

TomAiello

Sep 27, 2017, 4:12 PM
Post #14 of 26 (1842 views)
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Re: [kenny123] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

kenny123 wrote:
I wish Squirrel harness/container systems didn't conceal the hip articulation behind foam and fabric for this very reason :(

You can just clip/hitch around the hip junction. You don't need the articulation ring to do that.

TomAiello

Sep 27, 2017, 4:14 PM
Post #15 of 26 (1838 views)
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Re: [platypii] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

platypii wrote:
Pretty sure squirrel has full strength chest strap to rappel on

I find rapelling from the chest strap annoying, because the device rides up so high into my face. I definitely prefer to rappel from a device further down. That's just my personal preference.

FWIW, I'm not aware of any systems currently in production with a major manufacturer that do not have full strength chest straps that allow rapelling.

Catch22.FMX

Sep 27, 2017, 5:00 PM
Post #16 of 26 (1815 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

Awesome info people!

Thanks to all who chimed in, I'm sure someone else might benefit from this, especially someone like myself who is the forum for knowledge (borderline obsessed!).

The Camp harness looks like a good option, since some of the approaches I have in mind require some securing/abseiling and I would prefer not to accidentally pop pins (wearing rig) before leaving the exit Laugh

This sling and 'biner harness might be a good one to know/use ...Probably the most minimalistic option. (See attachment)


(This post was edited by Catch22.FMX on Sep 28, 2017, 3:14 PM)
Attachments: 138926_Full.jpeg (29.1 KB)

hjumper33
Moderator
Sep 27, 2017, 8:46 PM
Post #17 of 26 (1774 views)
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Re: [wasatchrider] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

wasatchrider wrote:
Or just a long sling around the front of your waist through the legs and three point with a biner

Yup absolutely, especially if you're just repelling. I'm mostly going up as opposed to down, which I don't like as much with slings (mostly because im a pussy). Also the camp harness is apparently rated for falls, and it's nice to thrown in a bag for a trip in case there's some climbing on a weather day. I've never actually fallen in that harness, but I have used it on some sport climbs. It's definitely not the most comfortable thing in the world, but not a ton more weight than slings.

RichM

Sep 29, 2017, 2:33 AM
Post #18 of 26 (1570 views)
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Re: [setarkos] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

setarkos wrote:
TomAiello wrote:
setarkos wrote:
Nothing wrong with using a climbing harness. Just wear it over your leg straps.

Can you explain why you said this originally? Or was it just a typo?

That was overemphasized. I thought it would probably be uncomfortable having something underneath the leg straps during opening. No safety concerns.
I guess in order to tighten the climbing harness properly it is even better to wear it underneath.

I am also surprised. I would imagine that if you get hung up in a tree in a rig with fixed risers having the harness underneath the leg straps would be ideal. You could secure yourself to the tree and then climb out of the harness safely.

idemallie
Moderator
Sep 29, 2017, 5:40 PM
Post #19 of 26 (1455 views)
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Re: [maretus] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

maretus wrote:
I think the Alp 95 has been discontinued but there are multiple other manufacturers making similar UL harnesses.

http://www.camp-usa.com/...arnesses/alp-racing/

It's not called the "95", but at 92 grams I believe it's the one you're talking about. Still available at several online stores. Black Diamond also makes a good UL harness (called the Couloir I think?) that is a little bulkier but much more comfortable. I don't think it's as good for dedicated BASE use, but it's significantly more versatile.

These harnesses are designed for ski mountaineering (read: falling into a crevasse), so they're more than capable of sustaining significant falls. The weight savings primarily comes from a lack of padding, which makes them uncomfortable to hang in.

TomAiello

Sep 29, 2017, 6:24 PM
Post #20 of 26 (1445 views)
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Re: [idemallie] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

Petzl makes one too. I bought one in SLC on layover on the way to Europe this year, because I forgot my Camp Race Harness at home.

I like the Camp a bit more than the Petzl, but they are both pretty good.

setarkos

Oct 2, 2017, 6:05 AM
Post #21 of 26 (1274 views)
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Re: [RichM] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

RichM wrote:
I am also surprised. I would imagine that if you get hung up in a tree in a rig with fixed risers having the harness underneath the leg straps would be ideal. You could secure yourself to the tree and then climb out of the harness safely.

Makes sense!

maretus

Oct 2, 2017, 10:11 AM
Post #22 of 26 (1228 views)
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Re: [idemallie] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

idemallie wrote:
maretus wrote:
I think the Alp 95 has been discontinued but there are multiple other manufacturers making similar UL harnesses.

http://www.camp-usa.com/...arnesses/alp-racing/

It's not called the "95", but at 92 grams I believe it's the one you're talking about. Still available at several online stores.

Iīd guess thatīs a new (and improved) model of the 95 (https://www.moosejaw.com/...0_10208_10000001_-1_). Good to see thatīs still available. The VBG is also dealing the Cilao harness : http://www.valleybasegear.com/...arness_by_Cilao.html

84n4n4

Oct 2, 2017, 5:47 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1151 views)
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Re: [Catch22.FMX] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

hi!

so heres what i do, use one 120cm sling and a carabiner.
see picture:
1 - feed sling through both hip rings (or behind hip junction if you dont have rings)
2 - clip both ends in carabiner
3 - take portion of the sling that goes from one ring to the other, and ...
4 - ... also clip that into the carabiner
5 - voila, youve got yourself a sidewise self equalizing makeshift climbing harness from just one sling and a carabiner
6 - i personally prefer to add another carabiner to the cheststrap, it prevents you from flipping over and makes steep rappels / rappels where you really have to use your feet to keep yourself away from stuff much much more comfortable. no worries, the cheststrap is only loaded with what you lean into it, and also in a much better direction then when directly rappeling off of it. (which you shouldnt do in the first place)

ive also got an early version (~8 years old) camp ultralight harness, it packs away really tiny, but its really thin and therefore not at all comfortable, i ended up rappeling with above described method for the past few years. the newer camp harness from the link looks way more comfortable though.

regarding the metal against metal and textile against textile discussion (if there actually is one)
i know in climbing its a big no-no, but interestingly in parachuting that works quite well, also on high load parts. (soft links, brake line cascades, line attachment points, some new harness designs, etc..)
and regarding metal on metal, i guess the hardened steel rings used for hip rings are going to be a lot stronger than the average aluminium carabiner. (all the rings in the 3ring also play along nicely without indenting or scrubbing off much of each other).
but if youre still afraid of wearing out the hip junction part on a non articulated harness, go for a dyneema sling (which is just another brandname for the same thing that spectra is), because we know nylon and spectra seem to play along quiet nicely...

and after writing all that i read that wasatchrider just mentioned my makeshift harness version already, anyways, here now with pictures :-)

take care!
ciao!
hirschi
Attachments: makeshift-harness.jpg (380 KB)

Catch22.FMX

Oct 3, 2017, 6:20 AM
Post #24 of 26 (1077 views)
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Re: [84n4n4] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

Wicked input from everyone, not only has this confirmed some things that I thought would work but I have multiple ways to go about it!

Thanks for the input Hirschi! Thats what I'm going to do as it seems the most minimalistic solution whilst avoiding the metal on metal and textile on textile. (I have hip rings).

The lightweight harness under the rig, for reasons mentioned earlier, is an attractive idea if your considering making a tree landing LaughLaugh

Regards Hirschi, say hi to Andreas! (Its Oliver Ellwood btw) Smile

Dadsy

Oct 3, 2017, 6:48 AM
Post #25 of 26 (1069 views)
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Re: [84n4n4] Base Rig Attachment point for climb down [In reply to] Can't Post

what width sling have you been running?

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