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Warning label content discussion
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goochie

Jul 16, 2017, 5:44 PM
Post #1 of 30 (2338 views)
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Warning label content discussion Can't Post

It's not a real warning though, is it?

In reply to:
*Note: C-RACE, BASE Version. If you are looking to compete in a BASE Race event, tell us before you place your C-RACE order. We will make you a BASE optimized version of the suit.

squirrel.ws

1) It says "note" and not "warning"
2) What if i'm not competing in a BASE Race event, but still want to base jump the suit? The note doesn't warn me about a possibly difficult pull
3) "optimized version" also doesn't say that the standard version is unfit for base jumping, it just says that they can optimize it for base


(This post was edited by TomAiello on Jul 16, 2017, 8:42 PM)

DFR

Jul 16, 2017, 7:47 PM
Post #2 of 30 (2299 views)
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Re: [goochie] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

It says "race" in the name. It's a race suit. If you have the experience to be flying suits that big you probably know the differences between them and if you're looking a a BASE suit you'll probably buy an Aura or a Freak or a Colugo, not a race suit. Or if you shoot Squirrel and email, they'll direct you to a suit better fit to your needs.

But then if you did happen to buy a C-RACE and then did just one skydive on it you might go "wow, that was a harder pull than I expected. Maybe I shouldn't BASE jump it."

But also clearly this wasn't the case in the incident as Micah knew the risk of the suit and had more than enough skydives and BASE jumps to make an educated assessment on weather of not he wanted to fly it.

By all means discuss what exactly made the pull hard on the suit, how to fix it (as someone mentioned above or in a different thread, maybe leave the zips and inch open to reduce some pressure), what to do to avoid this happeneing to you; but bickering about the wording of a warning is silly. All it takes is one skydive on the suit or an email to Squirrel to understand the pull. I don't think anyone's going to jump it, go "Wow! That was hard to deploy! But Squirrel didn't warn me exactly about that on the website so it must just be a fluke and usually it's easy, I'm gonna go do a lowpull on a BASE jump"

TomAiello

Jul 16, 2017, 8:43 PM
Post #3 of 30 (2271 views)
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Re: [goochie] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

I moved this out of the discussion in the Incidents forum, to try to keep that discussion on topic.

hjumper33
Moderator
Jul 16, 2017, 9:05 PM
Post #4 of 30 (2267 views)
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Re: [goochie] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

There's also a giant label inside the suit saying a lot of stuff that amounts to "wingsuits are really dangerous".

Let me just put it out there for anyone that might need more warnings: warning, wingsuits are super dangerous. Three other people have already died since this accident, and none of them were even flying this suit. Be super careful with gear selection, exits, and terrain lines, because they all can kill you. Consider yourself warned.

jasonnever

Jul 16, 2017, 10:01 PM
Post #5 of 30 (2238 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

+1. I can't believe this is even a discussion! This is B.A.S.E jumping. If you want safe warning labels go take a look at your mattress.

AntoineLaporte

Jul 17, 2017, 3:45 AM
Post #6 of 30 (2127 views)
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Re: [DFR] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

DFR wrote:
It says "race" in the name. It's a race suit. If you have the experience to be flying suits that big you probably know the differences between them and if you're looking a a BASE suit you'll probably buy an Aura or a Freak or a Colugo, not a race suit. Or if you shoot Squirrel and email, they'll direct you to a suit better fit to your needs.

Vampire Race is a very good wingsuit for BASE, nothing to worry about the pull. It's not a Race suit, and it was out before the CRace.

DFR

Jul 17, 2017, 6:37 AM
Post #7 of 30 (2058 views)
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Re: [AntoineLaporte] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Squirrel makes a lot of wingsuits. Some are optimized for BASE (like the Aura) and some for skydiving (C-RACE) and many work great for both. Are you suggesting Squirrel shouldn't make a wingsuit designed to win skydive races because someone might BASE jump it and use if for something it wasn't specifically designed for? If you do enough skydives in it to be ready to BASE jump it, you should know the risk of it. Or decide it's a bad idea to BASE jump it and not do it.

For real. Personal responsibility and common sense.

Do your suits specifically say for terminal use only? What if I do a fast gainer in your suit from 250' and miss my PC because the pants haven't inflated and the blow over my handle? Is that your fault? Will you take the blame? I mean if it wasn't on the website how am I supposed to use commen sense to figure out what's a bad idea?

AntoineLaporte

Jul 17, 2017, 6:42 AM
Post #8 of 30 (2050 views)
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Re: [DFR] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

DFR wrote:
Squirrel makes a lot of wingsuits. Some are optimized for BASE (like the Aura) and some for skydiving (C-RACE) and many work great for both. Are you suggesting Squirrel shouldn't make a wingsuit designed to win skydive races because someone might BASE jump it and use if for something it wasn't specifically designed for? If you do enough skydives in it to be ready to BASE jump it, you should know the risk of it. Or decide it's a bad idea to BASE jump it and not do it.

For real. Personal responsibility and common sense.

Do your suits specifically say for terminal use only? What if I do a fast gainer in your suit from 250' and miss my PC because the pants haven't inflated and the blow over my handle? Is that your fault? Will you take the blame? I mean if it wasn't on the website how am I supposed to use commen sense to figure out what's a bad idea?

WOW dude !
You wrote that because it's written Race in the CRace name it's obvious it's a racing suit.
I was just saying that the Vampire Race that came out before the CRace is not a racing suit even if there is Race in the name.
So having Race in the name does not make the suit a racing suit.

And from that you are going so far out of the subject and out of what I wrote !

Keep calm and breath ;)

AntoineLaporte

Jul 17, 2017, 6:56 AM
Post #9 of 30 (2036 views)
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Re: [AntoineLaporte] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

I do think that warning labels are enough clear like they are now.
You already bought the suit when you read them so I guess everything that is on it is already know by the product description on the manufacturer's website.

DFR

Jul 17, 2017, 7:10 AM
Post #10 of 30 (2024 views)
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Re: [AntoineLaporte] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Well see, you could argue the Vampire Race is mislabeled then. Why are they calling it "Race" if it's not a race suit? If I don't do my research I might buy one and loose a race because of it.... they should be more clear.

AntoineLaporte

Jul 17, 2017, 7:23 AM
Post #11 of 30 (2016 views)
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Re: [DFR] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

DFR wrote:
Well see, you could argue the Vampire Race is mislabeled then. Why are they calling it "Race" if it's not a race suit? If I don't do my research I might buy one and loose a race because of it.... they should be more clear.

*TROLL*
"If you don't do your research you might buy a CRace and die because of it.... they should be more clear."
*/TROLL*

According to what you said before you have to be aware and it would be all on you and not on the brand. Or maybe not ? ;)

W_Heisenberg

Jul 17, 2017, 8:05 AM
Post #12 of 30 (1989 views)
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Re: [AntoineLaporte] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sad that you need a warning label to tell you BASE is dangerous and you might die from it. You take no personal responsibility for your actions then and love to blame others.

You should move to America Antoine. But like you agreed to before, you will take responsibility for anyone dying in your track suit which is very innovative for you to do that.

AntoineLaporte

Jul 17, 2017, 8:20 AM
Post #13 of 30 (1974 views)
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Re: [W_Heisenberg] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sad that you do not like me so much that you do not even read what I wrote just before.
I will help you. Here it is:
In reply to:
I do think that warning labels are enough clear like they are now.
You already bought the suit when you read them so I guess everything that is on it is already know by the product description on the manufacturer's website.

StealthyB

Jul 17, 2017, 11:08 AM
Post #14 of 30 (1896 views)
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Re: [W_Heisenberg] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

W_Heisenberg wrote:
Sad that you need a warning label to tell you BASE is dangerous and you might die from it. You take no personal responsibility for your actions then and love to blame others.

You should move to America Antoine.

Right on! +1

Holy Shit!!! We are adults ( hard to believe at times? )
If you haven't figured out for yourself yet , that you could die in aviation sports then you are really living in a fantasy, dream world!!!
Read the BASE fatality list for fucksakes!!!
I don't care if you are jumping a Prodigee or a C-Race with the stiff foam , if you are hucking yourself off a mountain wearing the equivalent of a straight jacket, then you only have yourself to blame for the consequences of your decision, not the manufacturer of the "Straight jacket "
Proceed at your own risk and stop blaming everyone else....
Jeeezus!!!!

PS. Just so you know, I bought an Aura 3 earlier this season and it came with all sorts of explicit warnings, I was left in no doubt by Squirrel of the risks, it was very clear that the stiff foam was not meant for BASE, This suit isn't even close to the C-Race in pressurization, but Squirrel left no doubt that one should proceed with caution, the warnings were crystal clear to anyone even to someone that chose to ignore the warnings, Great suit, regards, B.


(This post was edited by StealthyB on Jul 17, 2017, 11:38 AM)

alygator

Jul 17, 2017, 11:47 AM
Post #15 of 30 (1867 views)
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Damn we talk about a specific point not about "jumping from a cliff his dangerous" We all know that!
Stop being binary.

The only thing some people here "complain" about is just about Squirrel could just write a few word about the hard pull. So hard to do?
Does it make Squirrel responsable and not us? Definitly not.
At the end we re the only one to decide, i m this kind of guy to take all the responsability for my own choice, but once again it s better with all the informations...

Is it such a drama/ bashing to "ask" that? Really?
It s not even to blame Squirrel but to eventually save lives...

Anyway, now most of the people know about so we won t have this problem anymore.


(This post was edited by alygator on Jul 17, 2017, 11:59 AM)

kerblammo

Jul 17, 2017, 11:57 AM
Post #16 of 30 (1854 views)
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Re: [goochie] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

A jumpsuit I used to own had a warning label that said:

Warning: May contain traces of nuts.

It's funny, but it points to a truth: Chocolate bars have warning labels, for legal reasons. Eating a chocolate bar has no expectation of death or danger. Jumping out of aeroplanes or off objects does.

From an object-jumping perspective: does anyone attracted to BASE not know that it is incredibly dangerous? Is there any other reason for a warning label than to protect the manufacturer from frivolous lawsuits? Everything in BASE is your responsibility, surely.

TomAiello

Jul 17, 2017, 12:28 PM
Post #17 of 30 (1814 views)
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Re: [goochie] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone needs to post an original Mojo warning label in this thread. Let me see if I can take a photo of one...

GreggB

Jul 17, 2017, 12:37 PM
Post #18 of 30 (1794 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah the original Consolidated Rigging warning labels were brilliant.

AntoineLaporte

Jul 17, 2017, 12:43 PM
Post #19 of 30 (1787 views)
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Again StealthyB, like W_Heisenberg you should read what I said about the warning label.

AntoineLaporte wrote:
I do think that warning labels are enough clear like they are now.
You already bought the suit when you read them so I guess everything that is on it is already know by the product description on the manufacturer's website.



TomAiello wrote:
Someone needs to post an original Mojo warning label in this thread. Let me see if I can take a photo of one...

Probably the best I ever seen !

W_Heisenberg

Jul 17, 2017, 1:19 PM
Post #20 of 30 (1754 views)
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Re: [AntoineLaporte] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

AntoineLaporte wrote:
Again StealthyB, like W_Heisenberg you should read what I said about the warning label.

AntoineLaporte wrote:
I do think that warning labels are enough clear like they are now.
You already bought the suit when you read them so I guess everything that is on it is already know by the product description on the manufacturer's website.



TomAiello wrote:
Someone needs to post an original Mojo warning label in this thread. Let me see if I can take a photo of one...

Probably the best I ever seen !

You don't think there clear enough??
You're gonna die if you use or misuse this equipment.
How are warning labels like that not clear ??
Your implying Micah was not warned, which you are foolish to imply such a thing.

Post a photo of your warning label.
Please

TomAiello

Jul 17, 2017, 1:25 PM
Post #21 of 30 (1743 views)
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Re: [W_Heisenberg] Fatality Gudvangen, Norway, 2017-06-28 [In reply to] Can't Post

W_Heisenberg wrote:
AntoineLaporte wrote:
Again StealthyB, like W_Heisenberg you should read what I said about the warning label.

AntoineLaporte wrote:
I do think that warning labels are enough clear like they are now.
You already bought the suit when you read them so I guess everything that is on it is already know by the product description on the manufacturer's website.

You don't think there clear enough??

I'm pretty sure he said "I do think that the warning labels are clear enough now."

English is not his first language, but I believe he's agreeing with you. I could be wrong, but since his English is better than my French, I find the discussion easier to follow this way.

Relax. Arguing on the internet just for the sake of arguing is silly.

c_dog

Jul 17, 2017, 7:22 PM
Post #22 of 30 (1620 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Perigee label.


(This post was edited by c_dog on Jul 17, 2017, 7:23 PM)
Attachments: File_000.jpeg (2.78 MB)

Hajo

Jul 18, 2017, 2:42 AM
Post #23 of 30 (1512 views)
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Re: Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Warning labels and hints on websites...
I guess that putting every serious Info on that label is like putting a sticker on a indy-race-car, saying something like: "speeding kills" or "things in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear .." Crazy

Want to say:
in our sport, you should know what you are intending to do.
And if you donīt know, a warning label will not help you.
Use your brain ...

A nice saying is:
if you make things idiotproof, they will create a better idiot ...

Back to the point.
Labels and hints are not what I expect to be useful. Maybe you can put tons of info in a manual, but the problem sits in front of the screen (or the manual).

I have a driver license for a motorbike. If I think about buying me a competition racing bike, I should be aware what this is made for.
Or if I donīt have enough info/experience > ask someone who has ...

We should come back to take responsibility for our actions, no other sport displays that more than BASE.
Choosing a Race-Suit and not having the knowledge what that means at the end is not the issue of the manufacturer.
A detailled info on the website is crucial, but does not solve the problem of people, biting off more than they can chew ...

No warning label puts more brain in the head..
And this is no matter where you come from ...

kenny123

Jul 18, 2017, 8:55 AM
Post #24 of 30 (1385 views)
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Re: [goochie] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

I really wish manufacturers would start offering wingtip pouch as an option. How many no pull find BFLs do we need before that gets traction?

Colm

Jul 18, 2017, 3:02 PM
Post #25 of 30 (1275 views)
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Re: [Hajo] Warning label content discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

this must be the same as it sounds like, to argue if an antenna is "legal" or not Laugh

even a bystander knows, that Micah's tragic death would not have a different outcome, no matter what the label said. warning labels are helpful to lawyers and idiots.* **

*in BASE
** i'm not calling anyone here an idiot. people are entitled to their opinions

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