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Differences in containers?
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wildernessmedic

Feb 25, 2016, 3:33 PM
Post #1 of 70 (7967 views)
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Differences in containers? Can't Post

Looking at buying my first rig. Right now im between an Apex summit and Squirrel Kn for a container.

Not sure which to get. If they both have what you want does it just come down to looks and how it fits?

Any pros or cons to buying one over the other?

Thanks.

TomAiello

Feb 25, 2016, 4:11 PM
Post #2 of 70 (7946 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

They (and pretty much every other rig from a major manufacturer) are both totally fine in terms of function. It mostly comes down to personal preference, based on fit, comfort ease of packing, etc.

What kind of jumping do you expect to do? Mostly slider up or slider down? Or a pretty even mix of both?

wildernessmedic

Feb 25, 2016, 4:45 PM
Post #3 of 70 (7933 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

TomAiello wrote:
They (and pretty much every other rig from a major manufacturer) are both totally fine in terms of function. It mostly comes down to personal preference, based on fit, comfort ease of packing, etc.

What kind of jumping do you expect to do? Mostly slider up or slider down? Or a pretty even mix of both?

Thanks for the reply Tom. I'm looking for the most versatility I can get. Probably mostly slider down but I really would like to get something I can use for terminal jumps and possibly use for wingsuiting(probably won't happen but id like to keep it possible with whatever I get). I'd rather make this purchase once if at all possible. Both have a 3 ring release and dual pin. I'm just not sure if there's any differences I should be looking for aside from looks and fit.

e.a.hernandez

Feb 25, 2016, 7:01 PM
Post #4 of 70 (7889 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Buy a brand new lightly loaded OSP and a cheap ass Velcro rig (they sell anywhere from $200-$400). Jump the shit out of it. The canopy is the most crucial component and at the beginning most of what you will be jumping anyway you should be able to do with a Velcro rig (unless you start jumping terminal right away). Later on sell the Velcro rig for almost the same price you bought it and buy the rig you like the most (seriously just grab the one you like the most out the major manufacturers...they all do the job so comes down to how you personally like the rig). Avoid spending 3K on an ultra light super duper rig with all bells and whistles that you end up only doing low static lines on and end up selling here 5 jumps later. Just my .2 cents.

jjrise

Feb 25, 2016, 8:01 PM
Post #5 of 70 (7852 views)
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're going to sell it and "hopefully" break even later, why not just buy a rig you would want right from the start?

e.a.hernandez

Feb 25, 2016, 9:29 PM
Post #6 of 70 (7822 views)
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Re: [jjrise] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure. That's an option too. Nothing wrong with that. What I have seen is people with no experience in BASE end up buying the gear they "want", which after more experience and exposure to other jumper's gears and the actual vs the expected BASE environment end up selling it and buying something else. This can add up quickly and you end up loosing couple hundred bucks. The other option is you buy cheaper used gear without compromising safety and after more exposure the "want" becomes more stable and then you drop money in gear that you are more likely to keep. Again, I am not saying this is the way to go. It is just a point of view. My experience has shown me that jumpers tend to stay with gear they have tried and liked vs gear they got because of somebody else opinion. And now a few emojis so we don't take ourselves too serious AngelicCrazyMadBlushCoolWinkWinkWinkWink

maretus

Feb 25, 2016, 10:53 PM
Post #7 of 70 (7792 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

wildernessmedic wrote:

- I'm looking for the most versatility I can get.
- Probably mostly slider down
- but I really would like to get something I can use for terminal jumps
- and possibly use for wingsuiting

Both have a 3 ring release and dual pin. I'm just not sure if there's any differences I should be looking for aside from looks and fit.

Like Tom said, both of these rigs (Summit and Kn) probably fit quite well to your requirements (as do any other modern 2 pin rig). All of the moderns "basic" 2-pin rigs (by saying basic I´m excluding the new ultralight containers such as the JackDaw) will get the job done in all of the above scenarios. What you do want to be looking at on top of the basic fit, price, options etc is that what´s the crew you´re going to be jumping with using and where are you located?

"what´s the crew you´re going to be jumping with using" - Why does this matter? As said above, any of the moderns rigs will get the job done. Howeverm if you choose to buy a rig that no one in your crew has ever seen or ever used, you will be on your own with it. Maybe not a big deal as the rigs mainly are just 4 flaps and 2 pins so they all work the same but if you have experienced people around using the same gear as you havem you have quite good possibility on receiving good tips wht the guys have noticed along the way on packing and jumping them.

"where are you located" - Once again, all the modern rigs will get the job done so personally I would lean towards the selection of your nearest manufacturer (or at least the manufacturer who has a proper representative close by). If there is any problems with the product it is much easier to handle any post production issues with the manufacturer who 1) is in the same country (and time zone) with you and 2) speaks the same language than you.

wildernessmedic

Feb 25, 2016, 11:02 PM
Post #8 of 70 (7782 views)
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Re: [maretus] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Located in California. Apex is just a few hours south. Guys I'm jumping with aren't familiar with apex rigs. One uses squirrel kn. I tried it on and it felt good, but I've been kind of partial to the apex summit -although I've never tried one on.

I'm a buy once cry once kind of guy, if it means waiting a but I'm ok with that but I know turn around on rigs can be months and we have a trip to perrine in may that I want my own rig for.


I want something I can shell out the cash for once and have to last many years for terminal, sub terminal, and maybe wingsuiting years from now if possible. I have about $3,500.00 saved for it.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate the advice on buying a Velcro rig and jumping the shit out of it but- id like to buy something good once. From what I've read and heard Velcro is bad ju ju. I have the money and leaning towards apex summit bottomless container DP. If no one advises against it it think that's what I'll measure and purchase, buy a used canopy and throw it in there.

base283

Feb 26, 2016, 4:14 AM
Post #9 of 70 (7726 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

wildernessmedic wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate the advice on buying a Velcro rig and jumping the shit out of it but- id like to buy something good once. From what I've read and heard Velcro is bad ju ju.

Check out the BFL. I think only one Fatal was using a Velcro. Pin closed rigs have been involved in much more fatals. Trick is with Velcro is that one must maintain it. Just order extra shrivelflaps if one wants to maintain the grabbage of the Velcro. If one wants to be lazy, a pin rig is ok if one wants to trade ease of packing for a higher risk of a container lock.
take care,
space

hjumper33
Moderator
Feb 26, 2016, 6:20 AM
Post #10 of 70 (7686 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup, all modern two pin rigs are great. Ill throw a vote in for asylum. Marty's lead times are shorter than they've been in years. In my humble opinion, highest quality rigs on the market. I've got a rig with almost 900 jumps, and it looks just as good as the day I got it. Considering the mass production by some other places, Marty should call his rigs "artisnal" and charge more.

base283

Feb 26, 2016, 6:51 AM
Post #11 of 70 (7666 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

hjumper33 wrote:
Considering the mass production by some other places,

Mass production? do you mean that? (Hey, I need 500 custom built harnesses/container by friday next week)
Get real.
Take care,
space

Skez

Feb 26, 2016, 8:14 AM
Post #12 of 70 (7631 views)
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Re: [base283] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

base283 wrote:
wildernessmedic wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate the advice on buying a Velcro rig and jumping the shit out of it but- id like to buy something good once. From what I've read and heard Velcro is bad ju ju.

Check out the BFL. I think only one Fatal was using a Velcro. Pin closed rigs have been involved in much more fatals. Trick is with Velcro is that one must maintain it. Just order extra shrivelflaps if one wants to maintain the grabbage of the Velcro. If one wants to be lazy, a pin rig is ok if one wants to trade ease of packing for a higher risk of a container lock.
take care,
space


I have 2pin and velcro...admittely feel so much safer with velcro as id prefer a premature on a climb up then a pin lock but im a slider down jumper so yeh on low shit with pin rigs i have pins almost all the way out due to paranoia i would never jump with the pins pushed all the way in like some people do ....watchthybridle.com shows the many 2pin scenarios and possibilities of what can happen....i should note that i wouldnt use velcro for arials etc...well not mine anyway i can bust it open just by pussing my shoulders forwards i have to really try but yeh it happens


(This post was edited by Skez on Feb 26, 2016, 9:08 AM)

bluhdow

Feb 26, 2016, 8:29 AM
Post #13 of 70 (7618 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

You know you can go visit Apex, right?

Drive down and meet Todd, Steve, and the team that will be building your gear for you. They are great guys and will gladly give you a tour of the shop, discuss your options with you, and even measure you for a perfect fit.

Living in CA makes Apex a very attractive option, in my view. I've been to the shop a few times to have damaged gear inspected for airworthiness.

hjumper33
Moderator
Feb 26, 2016, 12:45 PM
Post #14 of 70 (7523 views)
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Re: [base283] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you haven't noticed, squirrel completely changed the wingsuit game and what we thought about lead times and production, and they are on their way to completely changing the base container game. One guy standing in a shop in auburn vs an entire production facility in another country. I couldn't even guess what the max production capability of squirrel would be in a month, maybe 50 wingsuits and 50 containers plus canopies. Even more? Id call that mass production as it comes to the base world.


(This post was edited by hjumper33 on Feb 26, 2016, 12:46 PM)

Mah_Dude

Feb 26, 2016, 1:50 PM
Post #15 of 70 (7496 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you haven't looked into Skunk Ape BASE I'd give them a look over. you can pretty much do everything you want with them. Yes they are a newer company and have a slightly different design but no need to worry. Jeff knows what he is doing. You can get a rig with all the bells and whistles and get it completely custom and still gunna be cheaper than what you'd pay for an Apex, by a few hundred. On top of that the build time is quite quick. I think I had my in two weeks and it only took that long because I wanted to have the first black fur pin protector flap. I love this this rig and I have jumped quite a few rigs. I also leave the Pin protector flap in place for every jump, including low FF and static lines. Ive taken it down to 150' and never worried about a pin lock due to a container malfunction. Plus it will save you a lot of money to get you a good canopy. Like they said above, a canopy is a lot more important than the container you have starting out.


(This post was edited by Mah_Dude on Feb 26, 2016, 1:54 PM)

Halfpastniner

Feb 26, 2016, 3:16 PM
Post #16 of 70 (7462 views)
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Re: [Mah_Dude] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Plus- Fluffy (Jeff) is just an awesome dude. I was blown away when I saw the rigs he was pumping out, I had no idea he was that talented.

Ppros were always my go to- love those rigs. Apex makes awesome stuff too- and there people are top notch as well. Since OP lives in socal, I would highly suggest driving over there and meeting Todd. I bet that answers his question.

Toddshoe169
Apex BASE
Feb 28, 2016, 1:51 PM
Post #17 of 70 (7170 views)
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Re: [wildernessmedic] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Go with Apex gear!

Ok so I'm biased, maybe you can tell. Regardless, Apex gear is top notch and built in the US. It’s actually all designed and built in Murrieta, CA. You’re more than welcome to come by to chat, call, or email us about our gear. If you’re shopping for gear let us know a few days before your visit and we will try to have something for you to try on in an appropriate size.
Our delivery time is 6 weeks. I think that’s respectable. It will vary during the year as we move into the busier spring and summer season. We have a good supply of stock equipment which can be shipped quickly (1 day on stock canopies, 10 business days on stock containers with a custom built harness).
We stand behind our gear and are always here for the after-purchase support you deserve.
Someone mentioned price in the earlier post. In the past we have been more expensive. I would recommend you look again. Our new products like Lobo and FLiK II have new pricing structures. We’ve eliminated many of the options and improved manufacturing techniques which gives us the ability to be more competitive.
Yes, Marty has built some nice rigs, he learned from the best. Smile
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Todd Shoebotham
Apex BASE
todd@apexbase.com

climbing.simon

Feb 29, 2016, 3:22 AM
Post #18 of 70 (7007 views)
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Re: [Toddshoe169] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

I bought a brand spanking new summit before jumping and I've been super happy with it. It packs easily, i like the crossover style pin flap, its pretty comfy(as you'd hope out of a custom rig!) great rig IMO

But a kN is cheaper by a bit.

Colm

Feb 29, 2016, 2:10 PM
Post #19 of 70 (6840 views)
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Re: [Toddshoe169] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

I will add, Apex has given me absolutely fantastic customer service Smile

Bryguy1224

Mar 1, 2016, 6:16 AM
Post #20 of 70 (6678 views)
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Re: [Colm] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Squirrel has one more container explosion during deployment than any other manufacturer.

Couloirman

Mar 1, 2016, 8:06 AM
Post #21 of 70 (6629 views)
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Re: [Bryguy1224] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bryguy1224 wrote:
Squirrel has one more container explosion during deployment than any other manufacturer.

What happened?

idemallie
Moderator
Mar 1, 2016, 8:08 AM
Post #22 of 70 (6624 views)
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Re: [Bryguy1224] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bryguy1224 wrote:
Squirrel has one more container explosion during deployment than any other manufacturer.

...which was caused by a design used by every other container manufacturer.

And Squirrel put the R&D in to correct it and prevent it from happening in the future. Not every other manufacturer has done that.

idemallie
Moderator
Mar 1, 2016, 8:13 AM
Post #23 of 70 (6617 views)
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Re: [Couloirman] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Couloirman wrote:
Bryguy1224 wrote:
Squirrel has one more container explosion during deployment than any other manufacturer.

What happened?

The integrated risers on a StrongLite was loaded in an unexpected way, causing a peel force on the risers which damaged the system. Basically a pull during strong track with a heavy jumper. This literally could have happened to any other rig.

Further discussion here:

http://www.basejumper.com/...=stronglite;#2976082

Bryguy1224

Mar 1, 2016, 8:47 AM
Post #24 of 70 (6588 views)
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Re: [idemallie] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

idemallie wrote:
Bryguy1224 wrote:
Squirrel has one more container explosion during deployment than any other manufacturer.

...which was caused by a design used by every other container manufacturer.

And Squirrel put the R&D in to correct it and prevent it from happening in the future. Not every other manufacturer has done that.

So you can personally vouch for the construction of all containers in the industry? The container was under built. Plain and simple. It has not happened to any other container for that exact reason.

Bryguy1224

Mar 1, 2016, 9:04 AM
Post #25 of 70 (6571 views)
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Re: [idemallie] Differences in containers? [In reply to] Can't Post

idemallie wrote:
Couloirman wrote:
Bryguy1224 wrote:
Squirrel has one more container explosion during deployment than any other manufacturer.

What happened?

The integrated risers on a StrongLite was loaded in an unexpected way, causing a peel force on the risers which damaged the system. Basically a pull during strong track with a heavy jumper. This literally could have happened to any other rig.

"Unexpected way"?!?!? Really.... Because nobody ever pulls in a track base jumping. Unimpressed

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