Aug 10, 2015, 2:08 PM
Post #1 of 77
Adrenalinebase ABX harness
What are your thoughts on the new ABX system? Especially when it comes to BASE jumping I'm reluctant to jump in line to test new technology, maybe especially so with harness design, but this system looks sexy.
Hopefully the Squirrel Stronglite issues (which seem to have been resolved) don't scare too many people away from new harness tech.
I have been wondering when the new advances seen in modern climbing harness design would find their way onto BASE rigs. I remember bringing the idea up to Marty whe working at Asylum.
The BASE community wasn't ready then (with the exception of a few wingsuits jumpers like Dean who were seeking the lightest possible equipment and having custom projects built) but it seems like jumpers are leaving some of the institutional inertia behind and are becoming more willing to try new designs.
Some of the rigs we worked on were ground-up, one-off lightweight designs that never saw the light of day outside of the friends of the jumpers who commissioned the rigs. It was kind of like the Lockheed Skunkworks... not talked about much outside of closed circles.
I think now is a different time though. I want one of these new harnesses.
Adrenalin tested it for a long time. They usually don t put on market unfinished products. I ordered mine 2 weeks ago without doubts on quality and security. I m one of the first "no sponsorised" guy to order it so you ll have to wait a little for a review;)
(This post was edited by alygator on Aug 10, 2015, 2:28 PM)
From what I gather the ABX option is available for an extra 67€, that's not bad. Seems to be plenty of new gear hitting the base market these days, I've also heard rumors S-fly is releasing a light version of their Snekor rig.
New snekor is almost ready. You probably can already order it if you ask. Really light one and quite nice looking. Little bit more expensive than the ld3 from what i heard. The Abx is 66.66ht without taxes. It ll be standard on ld3 at least later
I've been toying with ideas for an ultra light rig for quite a while. It might be interesting to play with some thing radically new. I can see some similar ideas in this but there really isn't enough information on parts of the design. I think you could go even farther. When the light weight specter slings came out it started me going, hmmm. A lot of the ideas I've been kicking around relate to joint design. If you can't pound on something with a big honking harness machine and five cord then your down to basically bartacks, and even then relatively low areas and limited stitch count. It led me to ideas about harnesses that would not be dependent on sewing and joint strength. What joints there were would be in shear not peal like most of our normal upper junctions. In some ways it was a throw back to some of my early rigs based on the Prestige harness. it was similar to some of the old military harnesses with an X back rather then a V. Similar to what they are doing here. I think I would go farther. Abandoning hip hardware all together. I was looking at a sliding junction design that would self tighten around the thigh. I don't know how they are doing their upper junction but I was thinking in terms of moving it up off of the chest to a floating point away from and above the shoulder. The peel thing goes away. The front and rear start to share the load of the opening. it was just one of those ideas I played with but never got around to doing any thing about.
Actually the most interesting thing I see there is the circular sewing pattern. I'd really like to do some odd angle pull test on that to see how it does. That looks like a very smart idea to me.
I have been waiting for this shift in harness design/concept/manufacturing for years. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding: Skydiving hardware was designed in the 1940s to accommodate 1-3/4" COTTON webbing. That's when/where we got our heavy steel legstrap buckles, etc. Then NYLON came along, woohoo! Lighter, stronger, but the military grandfathered in the same old hardware laying around, so 1-3/4" nylon became the standard (Type 8?) yielding superior overkill, along with TSO's, etc. In my opinion, standard skydiving and basejumping rigs are the equivalent of wearing a tank on your back, when all you really need is the equivalent of a pickup truck. A couple of us researched webbing materials on our own a few years back, found something sexy to replace Type-8, and tested the hell out of it with harness junctions tested to failure in a commercial pull-test rig. At my exit weight, I calculated a 14G safety factor on a worst-case full loading on a single junction! At 14G's, I'll probably tear an aorta or eject a spleen, meaning I have bigger things to worry about than a junction ripping. So we went ahead and built a harness, which turned out to weigh next to nothing and feel as comfortable as a light jacket. With an OSP 225UL, all-up-weight is 10lbs. After 3 seasons of steady use, it's still showing zero wear. My amazement is that if a couple of amateurs (and many other successful folks working in small quiet groups around the world) can figure this out on our own, why is it taking the industry names so long to develop this line of thinking? Anyway, rant complete. Can't wait to see what develops when all the major manufacturers put some serious research into sexy, lightweight harness technology. Just like lightweight canopies are almost standard these days, I can't wait to see what the harness choices are in a few years!
(This post was edited by flydive on Aug 23, 2015, 7:22 PM)
So, has anyone jumped the ABX harness? How do you like it?
It reminds me of Black Diamonds 'swing arm' suspension and the way most climbing harnesses can shift right or left. My only concern would be that in both these examples it can happen that you get stuck balance-wise on one side of the range of motion the system has.
In case of the climbing harness this is merely somewhat uncomfortable because once loaded it is difficult to shift back to the center due to friction. With the BD packs I think this is can even be a bit dangerous when it catches you off guard in a situation in which you mustn't lose balance - although I enjoy the feature once I got used to it and knew when the described event would happen.
I am wondering if something similar could happen with the ABX harness. Can anyone comment on that?
I have several jumps on the LD3 ABX/Peak 265. As usual the quality is second to none. It is about 0.5lbs lighter than my previous LD3/Peak 265 setup. It's also even more comfortable than my previous LD3, but I cannot tell if the ABX system makes a difference during opening or flying the canopy. The new buckles and chest strap are great. Set it once, done. Haven't used the Abseiling option, but it's nice that it's there. The seams are definitely unique. Let's hope they are as strong or stronger.
It's in my opinion the most advanced harness on the market.
(This post was edited by B52 on Jan 28, 2016, 10:06 PM)
So now that ABX has been out for a year or so, does anyone want to share their experience with it? Have you gotten less linetwists with slightly off body position? Or does it feel the same as a normal harness? I've heard very opposing opinions on wether it helps a noticeable amount, or it does nothing and screws you once you get linetwists because you can't use harness input to even out risers. It would be great to hear un-biased opinions from people who actually jump it
I have about 70 wingsuit jumps on mine and absolutely love it. Out of those I had twists down at the risers on maybe 2-3 of the jumps (due to uneven flare or bad body position). Super easy to handle getting out of, I think my worst was 1 1/2 twists.
Last season I had major issues with twists on a traditional harness that put me in a few horrible situations that I luckily got out of with minor consequences. On a few of them, the jumpers with me thought I was done. Got to the point of having a great jump and flight and then getting super anxious about pull time because I could never predict when and how bad I might get twisted.
Whether or not the X-system of the harness was fully responsible for keeping me out of any major twists, I'm not sure? I wouldn't claim that it is a cure for all twists, but if I ever buy another harness it will definitely be an ABX. Beyond the X-System, the rest of the harness is badass with amazing build quality. Lightweight, low-bulk harness strapping. Custom, aeronautics grade aluminum buckles. Programmed bartacks. Built-in abseiling points. Super comfortable... So yeah, ABX is so much more than just the X-system. And when one of the most bullshit marketing competitors has to talk shit on their own product pages, they must feel pretty threatened by your equipment.
I Last season I had major issues with twists on a traditional harness that put me in a few horrible situations that I luckily got out of with minor consequences. On a few of them, the jumpers with me thought I was done. Got to the point of having a great jump and flight and then getting super anxious about pull time because I could never predict when and how bad I might get twisted.
In reply to:
No experience with the ABX so nothing good nor bad to say about it, but given the number of jumpers who jump "traditional harnesses" without significant issues with twists, it may just be possible that a re-evaluation of your pull technique could also result in fewer of said twists. Having a harness that could possibly minimize the severity twists is fantastic, learning to pull in a way that prevents them from happening in the first place, even better.
Also, not trying to be a dick, I went through a similar thing with one of the first apache prototypes. Figured out I was flaring too aggressively and it would make me drop my shoulder after pitching because I had so little airspeed. Had them intermittently for about 20 jumps, and it definitely sucks to be afraid of your opening more than your flight.
(This post was edited by hjumper33 on Jan 7, 2017, 12:40 AM)
Super slow in the newsroom today so feeling compelled to respond.
Let me start by saying that all the modern Adrenaline harnesses are beautiful. Nice sleek aerodynamic designs / pin protection, and reinforcements that make even the messiest packers kit up with with a nice clean shape. If any of you feel compelled to choose their gear you're going to get a quality product for sure.
Anyone who wants to style out their Adrenaline rig should definitely contact Wngmark. His rose pattern make Brandon’s one of the most beautiful rigs I've ever seen.
In Chamonix, as you know, we get to see a lot of people wingsuiting and deploying parachutes - specially when you can see the Brevent from your kitchen window (or at least we used to). When I personally see guys at the top of the sport, in ABX rigs, fighting line twists almost to the ground and landing off at three different 3 times, I feel compelled to chime in and call shenanigans. So no matter how distasteful you find Squirrel’s response, a company that claims the ABX is a “small revolution on safety, especially during the opening sequence” might be guilty of creating a false or misleading impression.
Think I’m being too harsh? I’ve had two friends have line twists that resulted in fatal wall strikes. So in my opinion, claims that a harness will help you reduce line twists, better have stronger reviews than “I'm not sure” or a video of a half twist that could be corrected with harness inputs. The burden of proof is on them.
Chalking my opinion up as some brand favoritism is to ignore the fact that I spend a nice chunk of my personal time helping people, no matter what the brand, make safer decisions when they come to Chamonix.
edited to add attachment: "I think my rig is sexy too"
(This post was edited by Lau on Jan 8, 2017, 7:02 AM)
Nope, and I didn't share anything in the above post that would have been better substantiated if I had.
I can only read your question as a means to discredit my observations. Might be more effective to share how you feel safer or get less line twists with your ABX system. You see a lot of openings as well, with a way better cappuccino in your hand. Are you seeing deployments where the harnesses compensates for imperfect body positions? Are your ABX customers getting less line twists? I'm skeptical.
You know what would be an awesome way to win over the skeptics like me? Just get someone to put a long lens on you for your next 5 jumps and drop a shoulder when you pitch.