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Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue
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bluhdow

Apr 22, 2015, 9:07 AM
Post #1 of 21 (6595 views)
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Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue Can't Post

I've got a He paired with a Troll DW and been using it mostly for slider down jumping. Everything works beautifully and no complaints there.

I took to to terminal (WS) for the first time and my pin cover flap blew open almost immediately. It was all over the place for the duration of the flight and looked pretty spooky on film.

My closing loops were a little long so I've shortened them. Problem is, it's a really tight fit. It should be no problem for terminal jumps, but I made the closing loops out of spectra just to be a little faster on lower stuff.

All that said, the cover flap still seems pretty loose. I'll have to take it to terminal again to be sure, but I suspect that it will open again.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Were shorter closing loops enough to fix this or was a larger fix required?

Thanks!

woundedduck

Apr 22, 2015, 9:44 AM
Post #2 of 21 (6571 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

My summit had that issue and Apex now puts stiffener in the top portion of the pin flap. You might consider the same mod on your Helium.

bluhdow

Apr 22, 2015, 1:36 PM
Post #3 of 21 (6470 views)
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Re: [woundedduck] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone ever have Kathy stiffen the Helium flap? I think that would work well, just haven't seen it done before.

idemallie
Moderator
Apr 22, 2015, 1:46 PM
Post #4 of 21 (6454 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps it might be good to make the stiffener removable and just leave the slit open? I imagine a quickly opening pin flap can sometimes be a good thing.

bluhdow

Apr 22, 2015, 2:41 PM
Post #5 of 21 (6415 views)
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Re: [idemallie] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a bad idea, I think, to have different inserts with variable stiffness.

That said, for slider down the flap is left open. This is only a terminal issue. I think a moderately stiff flap would be fine and the option to change might be a bit of over engineering.

jpengel

Apr 23, 2015, 11:20 AM
Post #6 of 21 (6167 views)
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Re: [idemallie] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

idemallie wrote:
make the stiffener removable

Apex offers that option/mod on their summit/tl/tls.

I have the mod on my summit and like it, however it is one more thing to change when going SU/SD and vice versa (for those that prefer the KISS methodology).

It may be a bit of over-design, however I have had a few rear facing videos where the pin protector flap has come open during WS flights on dives and it is quite unsettling, considering you have no idea that it is happening while you are flying. Even after adjusting pack job and closing loop length it was still an issue, so the stiffener worked great for me. It's gives me that nice warm and fuzzy feeling on exit. That being said, I have friends that also have summits and they have had no issues with the pin flap being pulled open.


(This post was edited by jpengel on Apr 23, 2015, 11:27 AM)

idemallie
Moderator
Apr 23, 2015, 12:10 PM
Post #7 of 21 (6143 views)
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Re: [jpengel] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

jpengel wrote:
it is quite unsettling, considering you have no idea that it is happening while you are flying.

GoPro Mounted Rear-View Mirror: The most revolutionary technology since the tailgate.

(kidding)

bluhdow

Apr 23, 2015, 12:33 PM
Post #8 of 21 (6132 views)
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Re: [jpengel] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

If you open the flap when you jump S/D all is fixed!

I like a stiffer flap for terminal, just open it up when sub-terminal.

Done deal.

In any case, I've gotten a few ideas on how to fix it. All involved shorter closing loops and a stiffer flap.

Thanks guys!

Fledgling

Apr 24, 2015, 4:32 AM
Post #9 of 21 (5968 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

bluhdow wrote:
If you open the flap when you jump S/D all is fixed!

If you only stiffen the top edge of the flap it shouldn't interfere with slider down jumps at all. Leave the bottom edge alone and your pins will pull long before your bridle gets near the newly stiffened section.

bluhdow

Apr 24, 2015, 8:02 AM
Post #10 of 21 (5916 views)
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Re: [Fledgling] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

That's the plan!

epibase

Apr 24, 2015, 12:21 PM
Post #11 of 21 (5834 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

My helium came with a plastic stiffener in the flap.
I got it back in 2009.
Never blown open.
100+ terminal jumps...

roostnureye

Apr 27, 2015, 11:05 AM
Post #12 of 21 (5573 views)
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Re: [epibase] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

i would highly advise you not to modify the flap.

the earlier heliums had a stiff flap that was later changed to be not as stiff, this was in direct relationship to the container lock ups from weird angles on other rigs.

if you look at a razor you will see what the solution was to this issue. (a small tuck tab on the top)

btw I jump a helium slider up/down, wingsuit, etc. ive not had any issues with mine.

slider down I always open the flap.

bluhdow

Apr 27, 2015, 11:53 AM
Post #13 of 21 (5553 views)
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Re: [roostnureye] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

The following solution was proposed to me by a very reliable source. I think it makes sense and I don't see any issues with it. That said, I'll put it out to the field and see if someone more knowledgable than myself has a negative view of this fix.

I used a small plastic piece which is designed to bind report covers to stiffen only to top edge of the cover flap. Here's a link to the actual product:

http://www.staples.com/...Clear/product_503198

I cut down the "sliding bar" to the length of the pin cover flap along the top and melted the edges down to make sure they weren't sharp. I'm sure many of you used these types of report covers back in junior high so you know what these things look like.

See the attached images. I've been told this solution has been put into place with Summits with good results.

I don't see any issue. The flap still opens without difficulty, but is stiffer (only at the top edge) which should help prevent unintended openings. The plastic piece slides on and off easily and can be removed for subterminal jumps. I open the flap up for S/D anyway.

Anyway, take a look at the photos and let me know your thoughts. An open pin cover flap on WS jumps is not an option. The bridle flaps everywhere and I don't want a premature opening.


(This post was edited by bluhdow on Apr 27, 2015, 11:55 AM)
Attachments: 1.jpg (21.0 KB)
  2.jpg (27.8 KB)
  3.jpg (27.8 KB)

surfers98

Apr 27, 2015, 8:00 PM
Post #14 of 21 (5426 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Joe, is that mod Chuck Peters approved? You also might want to run that color combination by Jeb for good measure.
Attachments: 10556230_10203670726421568_8156206549908441879_n.jpg (42.8 KB)

bluhdow

Apr 28, 2015, 8:51 AM
Post #15 of 21 (5304 views)
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Re: [surfers98] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Exactly the kind of thoughtful feedback I was hoping for. Thanks buddy!

blitzkrieg

Apr 28, 2015, 9:53 AM
Post #16 of 21 (5276 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

hahaha, looks good to me. Tongue

bluhdow

Apr 30, 2015, 8:35 AM
Post #17 of 21 (5040 views)
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Re: [surfers98] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

I played with it some more and can't get it to cause any hang-ups. The worst thing I could think of was to jam the whole plastic piece under the tuck flap. It can still be opened from the top, and the bridle always pulls from the bottom anyway.

Jumping it tomorrow and I'll post footage of the opening.

bluhdow

May 1, 2015, 4:14 PM
Post #18 of 21 (4924 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone can stop worrying about me now! Problem solved. Here's the before and after:

https://vimeo.com/126641714

If you're interested in having me fix your containers I'll be happy to. My rates are $1,000 an hour plus materials.

ilya86

Oct 12, 2017, 6:02 AM
Post #19 of 21 (1326 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there any solution from manufacturer?
I have the same issue with pin cover on WS jumps.

bluhdow

Oct 12, 2017, 11:01 AM
Post #20 of 21 (1255 views)
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Re: [ilya86] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

I never contacted the manufacturer as my "plastic book report spine" worked well enough as a bandaid for what I needed. After my trip I just sold the rig and bought something more appropriate for the type of jumping I was doing.

My new official position is to recommend a TL or Summit though. Tongue

ilya86

Oct 13, 2017, 3:24 AM
Post #21 of 21 (1161 views)
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Re: [bluhdow] Helium Pin Cover Flap Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you. I will try to use white tape for ws jumps...
Anybody need Helium sized for 260??? Laugh


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