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Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch
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Huck

Jun 23, 2014, 9:47 AM
Post #1 of 39 (13381 views)
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Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch Can't Post

Has anything further happened with this? Or is it too complicated. . I could see where this could save precious altitude when needed.


(This post was edited by Huck on Jun 23, 2014, 11:14 AM)

hjumper33
Moderator
Jun 23, 2014, 10:57 AM
Post #2 of 39 (13339 views)
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Re: [Huck] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you feel it would have helped? They were too low to deploy by the time they realized it, the only thing that would have helped them was a better spot or recognizing it much earlier.

Huck

Jun 23, 2014, 11:12 AM
Post #3 of 39 (13328 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Ill edit post...its a thread on wingtip pouches.


(This post was edited by Huck on Jun 23, 2014, 11:15 AM)

Dunny

Jun 24, 2014, 2:39 AM
Post #4 of 39 (13070 views)
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Re: [Huck] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Its an ongoing project for Jojo

http://youtu.be/GM0CaCsXdvc

base698

Jun 24, 2014, 1:02 PM
Post #5 of 39 (12875 views)
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Re: [Huck] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Are lots of people dying from missed pulls?

hjumper33
Moderator
Jun 25, 2014, 1:10 AM
Post #6 of 39 (12697 views)
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Re: [Dunny] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Dunny wrote:
Its an ongoing project for Jojo

http://youtu.be/GM0CaCsXdvc

Looks pretty cool. Nice to see testing in those conditions. I would be interested to feel how firm his grip has to be to keep from a premature deployment. Great that hes continuing to refine the idea. The one scenario I could really see a benefit is if theres a design of wingsuit that doesnt allow for easy access to the BOC in the future, ie bigger or more rigid wings.

platypii

Jun 27, 2014, 5:03 PM
Post #7 of 39 (12323 views)
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Re: [Huck] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Pros:
  • Reduce chance of missed pull
  • Deploys PC into cleaner air
  • Keep flying through deployment, saves a few feet?


Cons:
  • Exposed bridle (on this incarnation)
  • Movement between suit and rig could pop pins?


Any other relevant factors I'm not thinking of?

samadhi

Jun 28, 2014, 2:53 PM
Post #8 of 39 (12182 views)
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Re: [platypii] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd love to see a setup like this. Is there any in Northern California being flown? I'd love to see how the bridal it's covered and the sewing of the pouch

snhughes

Jun 20, 2016, 2:25 PM
Post #9 of 39 (10681 views)
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Re: [Huck] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been looking into the wingtip pouch recently and I think now might be a good time to bump this thread.

It seems to me that it's the way forward; important pros and not many cons.

I haven't found any feedback from people using it so it would be great if those who use it could give a feedback on it. It would help to know how reliable it is.

How many jumps have you done with it so far?
Besides taking longer to set it up, is there anything else you would consider a con?
Have you ever had any PC hesitation with it?
Have the PC ever gone into the burble?
Have you had any problems with the bridle?
Have you had any other malfunctions with it?
Do you think it affects the flight (wing symmetry)?

Thanks in advance!

alygator

Jun 21, 2016, 10:20 AM
Post #10 of 39 (10401 views)
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Re: [snhughes] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.facebook.com/Wingpouch/?fref=ts

Lau

Jun 21, 2016, 10:41 AM
Post #11 of 39 (10378 views)
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Re: [platypii] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

A few cons I can think of:

mid air collision, with either another jumper or "other", could result in a premature deployment. A casual bump during a multi way could lead to a premature opening - which would be hilarious if no harm done. Also, there are a lot of jumpers out there that have hit trees, branches and other assorted foliage, and the pouch could change a close call into a horrible accident.

alygator

Jun 21, 2016, 11:11 AM
Post #12 of 39 (10349 views)
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Re: [Lau] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

The handle/ gripper is really "locked" on the gripper, you can fly without holding it. So you ll need a really hard collision to make it deploy.

B52

Jun 21, 2016, 10:31 PM
Post #13 of 39 (10157 views)
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Re: [alygator] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

Con: If you slip on exit (Roberta's incident), possible entanglement and extraction of canopy will take longer than throwing the PC.

gharrop

Jun 21, 2016, 11:01 PM
Post #14 of 39 (10138 views)
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Re: [B52] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

In a case like Roberta's where you're zipped in and just panic pulling it might actually be better as long as you're not on your back because otherwise you have a bunch of flapping, uninflated wing to reach past instead of just flicking your wrist and then spending the next couple seconds (since it's subterminal and 36''-ish) getting stable.

The bad case is if you're unzipped and slip (low ultimate), but your odds are pretty bad then anyways.

unclecharlie95

Jun 22, 2016, 2:39 AM
Post #15 of 39 (10044 views)
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Re: [Huck] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

BASE gear works well because of its simplicity.

The pouch introduces more components that can be misassembled and involves routing the bridle from the pin to the jumpers wrist. Both of which increase the risk of premature or possibly delayed deployments.

The PC incidents that have occured are tragedies but have been relatively few. IMO the frequency does not justify the added risk of the more complex system with every jumper retrofitting their gear and retraining their deployment technique.

If safety is the goal then educating wingsuit pilots on safer ways to progress towards low exits & terrain flying would be an obvious project.

gharrop

Jun 22, 2016, 3:31 AM
Post #16 of 39 (10020 views)
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Re: [unclecharlie95] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not just PC incidents though. What about cases like this where you're just barely matching the terrain? https://youtu.be/qBiAo9FD31Q?t=241

That looks like only maybe 10-15 meters AGL. Do you think Ludo, Brian, & Dan would have still gone in if they had an easy bail option without any loss of flight performance? What about the numerous fatalities from jumpers who couldn't get flying quickly and most likely stayed 100% focused on getting themselves flying until they hit the talus?

I've had something similar speedriding. Until impact I had no choice but to be fully committed to landing as gently as possible. If I had a button in my hand to pop my reserve, I might have used it. But throwing your lap mounted reserve means letting go of the controls and giving up as PIC. Hence I've crashed a number of times but never thrown a reserve. Education only goes so far, sometimes shit just happens.

unclecharlie95

Jun 22, 2016, 5:40 AM
Post #17 of 39 (9974 views)
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Re: [gharrop] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

gharrop wrote:
It's not just PC incidents though. What about cases like this where you're just barely matching the terrain?

I don't think we need a system that can open lower, we need to fly higher.

Staffo

Jun 22, 2016, 7:31 AM
Post #18 of 39 (9918 views)
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Re: [gharrop] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

gharrop wrote:
Do you think Ludo, Brian, & Dan would have still gone in if they had an easy bail option without any loss of flight performance?

What's the vertical loss in altitude when deploying near stall with the wingtip system?

JBag

Jun 22, 2016, 8:43 AM
Post #19 of 39 (9860 views)
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Re: [Staffo] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this deployment method is really cool and would be great for certain reasons, my issue is the loss of altitude argument. When I pitch, its with one arm going back but I keep my flight profile, I dont nose over, I dont start dropping, I reach back, pull, and return to flight. I'm not sure I even lose any extra altitude during this evolution b/c I have enough speed built up to cover the loss of 1sqft of wing.

I would add one con to the list though, if that yellow cable gets dirty or a rock gets into the fabric, you may not be able to pull. The BOC is a direct pull method where you yourself put the fabric into the wind, this setup is just a release so the PC can get itself into the wind. Releases fail.

gharrop

Jun 22, 2016, 8:49 AM
Post #20 of 39 (9859 views)
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Re: [unclecharlie95] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you in theory, but we both know that's not gonna happen. And as we almost saw on Saturday, it's not just low flying that can kill you.

I count 5 wingsuiters in the last 18 months who've gone in because they couldn't find the PC or fucked up the PC throw. That's just the obvious ones. Less obvious are the cases where they've stalled out (like Philippe Jean) and we don't know if they tried to panic pull or not.

The BOC is one of the few parts of a rig that's been essentially unchanged for the last 20 years. Meanwhile wingsuits are getting bigger and exits are getting shorter. Saying it's an education/training problem sounds like the arguments against AADs before the triple bounce in Antarctica.

BASE1817

Jun 22, 2016, 9:40 PM
Post #21 of 39 (9675 views)
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Re: [gharrop] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

How many Wingsuiters have gone in hugging terrain in that timeframe?

gharrop

Jun 23, 2016, 1:01 AM
Post #22 of 39 (9623 views)
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Re: [BASE1817] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

You're Swiss, you should know how to count.

pobrause

Jun 23, 2016, 5:02 AM
Post #23 of 39 (9554 views)
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Re: [BASE1817] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't even see how that is relevant in this discussion?!

hjumper33
Moderator
Jun 23, 2016, 11:52 AM
Post #24 of 39 (9416 views)
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Re: [unclecharlie95] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

unclecharlie95 wrote:
gharrop wrote:
It's not just PC incidents though. What about cases like this where you're just barely matching the terrain?

I don't think we need a system that can open lower, we need to fly higher.

This x 1000!

The swiss pouch is an interesting concept, but I put it right along side a reserve canopy in base. If you use your gear properly and make sound choices, you should continue to have the same success that the majority of wingsuit pilots have during the entire history of wingsuit base jumping.

Saying a swiss pouch would have saved ludo, brian, and dan is pretty short sighted, when what would have saved them is better planning prior to exiting the heli. They were incredibly talented pilots, and had the ability to flare and quickly pull. They realized they couldnt outfly the terrain seconds before impact, which I would assume is why none of them even attempted to pull.

Proper training, knowing your gear (how to maintain and carefully pack it) and flying at 50% of your talent and abilities would prevent 95% of all wingsuit fatalities.

Huck

Jun 23, 2016, 4:14 PM
Post #25 of 39 (9315 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Wingtip pouch-Swiss pouch [In reply to] Can't Post

You expect ppl to fly with out ego ?

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