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Heat
May 1, 2012, 6:54 AM
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Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Now apex base states that their "Ultralite fabric meets or exceeds traditional 0-3 (F-111) standards in all strength test", and asylum states that the Feather canopy can be used for slider down jumps with the right lines installed. So it seems that these light, low packing volume fabrics are damn good. So my question is - why are they not being used for all base canopies today?
Who doesn't want less packing volume and lighter weight on their gear if it really is that strong? Now I'm curious about your thoughts on this
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waltappel
May 1, 2012, 6:57 AM
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Re: [Heat] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Just guessing here, but there is the obvious psychological aspect of it. Overbuilt gear=less gear fear.
Also, lighter fabrics are generally less durable and BASE jumping is particularly brutal on gear.
Walt
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blitzkrieg
May 1, 2012, 6:58 AM
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Re: [Heat] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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my first thought is mainly, that while they are equal or better in tested tensile strength, their abrasion resistance is not.
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MBA-PATTO
May 1, 2012, 7:12 AM
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Re: [blitzkrieg] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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+1
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OuttaBounZ
May 1, 2012, 9:09 AM
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Re: [Heat] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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For someone like me who sucks at BASE, I think I would rather put my kevlar-esque canopy in the blackberry bushes and douglas fir trees instead of an ultralight nylon one.
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TomAiello
May 1, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Re: [Heat] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Heat wrote: So my question is - why are they not being used for all base canopies today?
Have you compared the cost?
Unless you have an unlimited amount of money, you have to decide if you'd rather put that thousand dollars toward an ultralite canopy, another container, airline tickets to Switzerland, or something else.
Not everyone has an unlimited budget.
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seekfun
May 2, 2012, 7:50 AM
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Re: [Heat] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Also take into consideration the entire design of the canopy. In addition to different fabric, some of these canopies employ less reinforcement than standard BASE canopies. Compare the design and construction differences in light of the environment you'll be jumping.
For instance, while I may be comfortable jumping a Light or Ultralight canopy off some huge cliff with high separation potential and picturesque grassy landings, I may not want to be dangling from that same canopy when it hooks a single bolt on an appurtenance of my local A. If my ass is dangling, I want it dangling from fat Dacron lines attached to ridiculous amounts of overbuilt reinforcement tape, thread, and spanwise reinforcement material.
This is just my theory on canopy selection as part of the overall risk management matrix.
~ Chris
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GreenMachine
May 3, 2012, 4:58 AM
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I agree with your notion Chris and
also want people to realize that the
exit weight of the jumper is a factor.
Force = mass x acceleration
Taller/Bigger people are usually heavier,
jump bigger/heavier canopies, gear, etc.
Hence small/light guys can get away with
jumping things that big/heavy should not.
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Heat
May 4, 2012, 6:39 AM
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Re: [seekfun] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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+1
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Toddshoe169
Apex BASE
May 8, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Re: [Heat] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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“So my question is - Why are they (Ultralites) not being used on all BASE canopies today?”
The simple answer is cost. The Ultralite fabric is 3 times more expensive than traditional 0-3 (F-111) fabric.
The more complex answer is we are in the transitional state for this new technologically advanced fabric. Similar to when ZP fabric first came into the skydiving industry in the late 80’s early 90’s. Only a few models where available in the new ZP but most canopies where continuing to be built using the industry standard (at the time) 0-3 fabric. As time went on, the ZP fabric gained popularity and proved to be the superior choice and the industry shifted to ZP for main parachutes. Today, ZP is the standard fabric for a main parachutes in all disciplines including CRW, students, and high performance canopies. The sport of BASE is in a similar transition. As the fabric is used, jumpers and manufacturers are learning about the real world performance and longevity characteristics. We predict a day when all BASE canopies will be constructed using Ultralite fabric and the 0-3 will be a thing of the past.
Why is Ultralite fabric ideal for BASE? Unlike skydiving there is no time when having a heavier, larger volume canopy is beneficial to a BASE jumper. You might ask when is a heavy canopy better for a skydiver? Many skydivers use lead belts of vests to help acquire a desired fall rate. Reducing the weight of the equipment only means an increase of lead.
Is all lightweight low volume fabric created equal? In our opinion No. There is only one manufacturer (that we’ve been able to find thus far) that produces a product of the quality and specification we demand; perhaps in the future there will be more. At this time we’ve investigated other suppliers. They are able to produce light weight low bulk versions but at a sacrifice in strength. Currently the BASE industry is the primary users of this new technology. If and when, the new fabric becomes available in a ZP version we will likely see it being used in skydiving which is likely to drive costs down and increase the colors and availability.
We were slow to embrace the new fabric. We too had the “feeling” that something (like durability or strength) must be sacrificed. After testing and using the Ultralite fabric, from one supplier, we have found those concerns (feelings) to be untrue. F-111 was introduced to the industry in 1979 (Poynters) that means we’ve all had more than 3 decades to evaluate and become comfortable with what was, at the time, a new technology. Ultralite fabric is still within its first decade of use. But thus far is proving to be an outstanding option for those willing to be on the cutting edge of BASE technology.
Todd
Apex BASE
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seekfun
May 8, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Re: [Toddshoe169] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Todd,
As I understand it, the Lite/Ultralight canopies also have some design/construction differences (e.g. reinforcement areas). If we use the FLiK as an example, are there plans to build a FLiK that is completely consistent with the original FLiK design and specifications, save for the fabric type?
Thanks,
Chris
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Heat
May 10, 2012, 8:10 AM
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Re: [Toddshoe169] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Thanks Todd! I'm really looking forward to see what the future will bring when it comes to products and the jumping itself. Good to know there are dedicated manufacturers like yourself out there who are on the lookout for new innovations and push the equipment further and into the future. Keep up the good work
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freeflyJoe
May 10, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: [Toddshoe169] Light fabrics for all canopies?
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Good stuff. You should post more often Todd! 
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