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Lucifer
Mar 4, 2009, 3:29 AM
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Velcro ...again?
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"Back in the days" Velcro was THE shit.
It virtually annihilated total malfunctions.
But we lazy basejumpers don't like to take care of the 100jumps-worn-old-velcro.
Dual Pin rig is clean, doesn't require much attention, seemed to work well; and packs small and tight easily.
Yet we seem to have too much hard pulls, close calls, fatalities and incidents that _might_ ( not in all cases, dont get me wrong ) be related to the nature of pin rigs.
Hell yeah, shrivel flap can shrivel unintentionally while wingsuiting, yet i've seen proper modification of velcro rigs to fix this problem with a secondary top flap getting over the shrivel flap with an additional velcro. Clean, no additional force needed to open it (still shrivel), no "unintentional opening" while wingsuiting. Still require maintenance, but i don't think that there's another drawback.
The fact is : the opening force of a velcro container is quite constant. Pins offer good but variable pullforce results, and it still is possible to set a total mal, even if really unlikely.
Is it just a wrong impression, were the recent incidents more a question of PC problems or just dirty low pulls? I don't know.
But maybe it's time to re-think.
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Sangi
Mar 5, 2009, 6:41 PM
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Re: [Lucifer] Velcro ...again?
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This is an interesting thought. Would be nice to hear opinions on this matter of people who are very experienced and knowledgeable with gear... 
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stitch
Mar 5, 2009, 7:22 PM
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Re: [Lucifer] Velcro ...again?
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In reply to: Dual Pin rig is clean, doesn't require much attention,
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Calvin19
Mar 6, 2009, 12:51 AM
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Re: [Lucifer] Velcro ...again?
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Velcro rigs have the same problem that most of it's inverters do these days, they cannot pucker tight enough to keep all there shit contained and one little jolt sends shit everywhere.
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Spiderbaby
Mar 6, 2009, 7:15 AM
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Re: [Calvin19] Velcro ...again?
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Yeah but, it is soooo nice to hear the velcro rip as you toss. Pins are so quiet and unsatisfying that way.
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robibird
Phoenix Fly
Mar 6, 2009, 7:37 AM
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Re: [Lucifer] Velcro ...again?
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there is no one single element were velcro rig would have advantage comparing the pin rig!
fresh velcro producing much higher force needed to open the container than pins, but w the time velcro has no power at all. Bummer is that there is no clear sign when this happend.
For some people it is easier to pack the velcro rig and that is the ONLY advantage of velcro rig for those people.
Pin force is overrated! Pack the rig tight , take the dynamometer and check the force!As long pins are correctlly routed and turned force is low. Pay attention to that !
Use the opposite routing on low jumps so that bridle going out from the top , not bottom. ( this way force is 2x less at least)
Be careful in choosing the right container and harness size for canopy u going to jump.
Usually , it is better to have one size bigger container as than canopy is much nicer to pack and it sits much better over your back. Pin force is more consistant no metter how many layers of clotting you take... ( there is much more factors than just -pin or velcro)
Velcro is an old school and there should stay!
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baseknut
Mar 6, 2009, 9:08 AM
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Re: [Andy_Copland] Velcro ...again?
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On delays up to 4 seconds I can feel/hear my pins pop.
~Jake
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halvor_a
Mar 6, 2009, 9:37 AM
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Re: [robibird] Velcro ...again?
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robibird wrote: Use the opposite routing on low jumps so that bridle going out from the top , not bottom. ( this way force is 2x less at least) Be careful in choosing the right container and harness size for canopy u going to jump.
I dont see how this makes the pullforce less. The way I pack my rig its more tention on the bottom pin, by pulling the topmost pin first, wouldnt that just create more tention on the last pin?
This would ofcourse vary depending on container and how you fold the cannopy, but that is my case at least.
Would you say that pulling the topmost first in my case would make the pullforce needed lower?
..not that i have a problem with tight pins in the first place, just curious :)
I thought the reason for swiching routing on handheld was bridlecontrol.
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wwarped
Moderator
Mar 6, 2009, 9:57 AM
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Re: [halvor_a] Velcro ...again?
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halvor_a wrote: I dont see how this makes the pullforce less. The way I pack my rig its more tention on the bottom pin, by pulling the topmost pin first, wouldnt that just create more tention on the last pin? This would ofcourse vary depending on container and how you fold the cannopy, but that is my case at least. Would you say that pulling the topmost first in my case would make the pullforce needed lower? ..not that i have a problem with tight pins in the first place, just curious :) I thought the reason for swiching routing on handheld was bridlecontrol.
while I respect him greatly, I'd suggest you not ask those questions. listen to what he said first.
"robibird' wrote: Pin force is overrated! Pack the rig tight , take the dynamometer and check the force!As long pins are correctlly routed and turned force is low. Pay attention to that !
just get a scale and find out for yourself how YOUR packing effects YOUR rig. see what makes a difference. the results should make you far more comfortable than internet advice. (no matter how good the source.)
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SpeedPhreak
Mar 6, 2009, 10:18 AM
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Re: [baseknut] Velcro ...again?
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baseknut wrote: On delays up to 4 seconds I can feel/hear my pins pop. ~Jake
Ditto.
Blitzkreig has sweet little video off a cliff where you can distinctly hear his pins pop on the video from the ground.
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halvor_a
Mar 6, 2009, 10:39 AM
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Re: [wwarped] Velcro ...again?
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The question was more about a general interest for the theories on the physics, than wanting to change my routines based on a forum advice, even though its robi 
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blitzkrieg
Mar 6, 2009, 11:45 AM
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Velcro ...again?
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yeah, but that was because the ground was no more than 200ft away and my pin tension was really really tight...
guess what... low free fall and it still all worked the way it was designed. hmmm.
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gauleyguide
Apr 8, 2012, 6:03 AM
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Re: [Spiderbaby] Velcro ...again?
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I love my velcro rig!
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Attachments:
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velcro.jpg
(53.3 KB)
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sky4meplease
Apr 9, 2012, 9:33 AM
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Re: [gauleyguide] Velcro ...again?
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That's a nice looking rig but it's a little big on you don't you think?
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gauleyguide
Apr 9, 2012, 1:27 PM
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Re: [sky4meplease] Velcro ...again?
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Ha! I wish I had an ass like that. I'd never leave the house again.
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RayLosli
Apr 9, 2012, 4:47 PM
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Re: [sky4meplease] Velcro ...again?
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Does size matter ?
.
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GhettoBird2
Apr 11, 2012, 1:13 PM
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Re: [RayLosli] Velcro ...again?
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 Whether its velcro, smellcro, fins or pins.....as long as your having good, SAFE fun its all gravy. If Velcro was soo out dated, why does Apex make a CRISPY/DANK Velcro rig?
Haters going to hate, but I love my cro' baby. Its all about how comfortable you are on exit point anyway.
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maretus
Apr 11, 2012, 3:14 PM
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Re: [Lucifer] Velcro ...again?
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Maybe this is old news but have people realised that velcro rigs are now banned in Kjerag? Maybe good to know if you´re heading there and planning to jump your trustworthy old velcro...
http://basekjerag.com/...0699EE8?OpenDocument
"No Velcro rigs are allowed for terminal jumping."
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Ajunkie
Apr 11, 2012, 7:17 PM
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Re: [maretus] Velcro ...again?
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"No Velcro rigs are allowed for terminal jumping."
So if I do a super sick track in my velcro and dont hit terminal velocity, i'll be fine, right?
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maretus
Apr 12, 2012, 3:16 AM
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Re: [Ajunkie] Velcro ...again?
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Ajunkie wrote: "No Velcro rigs are allowed for terminal jumping." So if I do a super sick track in my velcro and dont hit terminal velocity, i'll be fine, right?
Regardless of how sick your track is, you still hit terminal velocity. The terminal velocity in your sick track might differ from the terminal velocity when going slick or when going with WS but you will still reach it. Terminal velocity is not a constant (like the speed of light for example) but depends on your setup and bodyposition etc. So I would guess you cannot use this excuse and jump your good old velcro in Kjerag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity
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theschrund
Apr 12, 2012, 7:15 AM
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Re: [maretus] Velcro ...again?
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What if you promise to take a delay of no more than 8 seconds?
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gauleyguide
Apr 12, 2012, 7:21 AM
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Re: [maretus] Velcro ...again?
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What of you are doing a sick and radical go and throw?
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